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	<title>Comments on: Grown-up Female Characters in Spanking Films</title>
	<atom:link href="http://adelehaze.com/grown-up-female-characters-in-spanking-films/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://adelehaze.com/grown-up-female-characters-in-spanking-films/</link>
	<description>A Blog of Musings on the Science of Artistic Suffering</description>
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		<title>By: Fesseequebec</title>
		<link>http://adelehaze.com/grown-up-female-characters-in-spanking-films/comment-page-1/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>Fesseequebec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Mar 2006 01:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adelehaze.com/?p=37#comment-175</guid>
		<description>Thanks, kid, you&#039;re a sweetie :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, kid, you&#8217;re a sweetie :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Adele</title>
		<link>http://adelehaze.com/grown-up-female-characters-in-spanking-films/comment-page-1/#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>Adele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adelehaze.com/?p=37#comment-155</guid>
		<description>Aw, Fess. Keep on reading; we&#039;ll cure you of your hang-ups pronto. (And give you some new ones. LOL)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aw, Fess. Keep on reading; we&#8217;ll cure you of your hang-ups pronto. (And give you some new ones. LOL)</p>
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		<title>By: Fesseequebec</title>
		<link>http://adelehaze.com/grown-up-female-characters-in-spanking-films/comment-page-1/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>Fesseequebec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Mar 2006 04:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adelehaze.com/?p=37#comment-148</guid>
		<description>Adele, I&#039;m just a middle aged guy that was raised by a paleofeminist dragon of a mother and I must have all kinds of hangups I haven&#039;t even thought of. I won&#039;t presume to tell you what is or isn&#039;t feminist, that&#039;s for your gender and your generation to define.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adele, I&#8217;m just a middle aged guy that was raised by a paleofeminist dragon of a mother and I must have all kinds of hangups I haven&#8217;t even thought of. I won&#8217;t presume to tell you what is or isn&#8217;t feminist, that&#8217;s for your gender and your generation to define.</p>
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		<title>By: Adele</title>
		<link>http://adelehaze.com/grown-up-female-characters-in-spanking-films/comment-page-1/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>Adele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adelehaze.com/?p=37#comment-131</guid>
		<description>Niki, great point as to validity of offences. I think you&#039;ve just given me a topic for a future post. :) It&#039;s against my feminist principles to drag women under my definition of feminism, though, so I really wouldn&#039;t go as far as defining you against your will.

(LOL &quot;Oh, please, Miss! Not the definition! Please don&#039;t define me, I&#039;ll be good!&quot;)

Fess, come back whenever you feel like it; I&#039;ll be here. Any flames are unlikely, seeing as I&#039;m a control-freak, and hand-approve all new comments :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Niki, great point as to validity of offences. I think you&#8217;ve just given me a topic for a future post. :) It&#8217;s against my feminist principles to drag women under my definition of feminism, though, so I really wouldn&#8217;t go as far as defining you against your will.</p>
<p>(LOL &#8220;Oh, please, Miss! Not the definition! Please don&#8217;t define me, I&#8217;ll be good!&#8221;)</p>
<p>Fess, come back whenever you feel like it; I&#8217;ll be here. Any flames are unlikely, seeing as I&#8217;m a control-freak, and hand-approve all new comments :)</p>
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		<title>By: Niki Flynn</title>
		<link>http://adelehaze.com/grown-up-female-characters-in-spanking-films/comment-page-1/#comment-130</link>
		<dc:creator>Niki Flynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adelehaze.com/?p=37#comment-130</guid>
		<description>Interesting. I don&#039;t usually get too het up over what the creepazoids think about what we do. But I&#039;d like to comment on my own personal hangup with the Incompetent Female stereotype. I would have a hard time playing a scene where - for example - a secretary was spanked for spilling coffee or a maid was spanked for &quot;missing a spot&quot; cleaning. Trivial offenses and honest mistakes are not valid grounds for punishment. (Unless, of course, it&#039;s an abusive scene, driven by someone sadistic who is only looking for an excuse - but that&#039;s an entirely different scene with an entirely different ethos.) If I&#039;m a secretary I need to have done something very serious to surrender my independence and submit to a spanking. And I agree with the need for more F/M and M/M spanking, but I bristle a bit over female authority figures in F/F scenes unless they&#039;re governesses or teachers.

I&#039;ve never identified as a feminist because I have such negative (read: Dworkinian) associations with the word. I have trouble dissociating it from &quot;antiporn.&quot; But I suppose I am one by your definition and by my clear discomfort with the Incompetent Female thing. It&#039;s just such a loaded term that means different things to different people and I don&#039;t like being lumped in with the few bad apples. I&#039;m an individualist first and foremost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. I don&#8217;t usually get too het up over what the creepazoids think about what we do. But I&#8217;d like to comment on my own personal hangup with the Incompetent Female stereotype. I would have a hard time playing a scene where &#8211; for example &#8211; a secretary was spanked for spilling coffee or a maid was spanked for &#8220;missing a spot&#8221; cleaning. Trivial offenses and honest mistakes are not valid grounds for punishment. (Unless, of course, it&#8217;s an abusive scene, driven by someone sadistic who is only looking for an excuse &#8211; but that&#8217;s an entirely different scene with an entirely different ethos.) If I&#8217;m a secretary I need to have done something very serious to surrender my independence and submit to a spanking. And I agree with the need for more F/M and M/M spanking, but I bristle a bit over female authority figures in F/F scenes unless they&#8217;re governesses or teachers.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never identified as a feminist because I have such negative (read: Dworkinian) associations with the word. I have trouble dissociating it from &#8220;antiporn.&#8221; But I suppose I am one by your definition and by my clear discomfort with the Incompetent Female thing. It&#8217;s just such a loaded term that means different things to different people and I don&#8217;t like being lumped in with the few bad apples. I&#8217;m an individualist first and foremost.</p>
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		<title>By: Fesseequebec</title>
		<link>http://adelehaze.com/grown-up-female-characters-in-spanking-films/comment-page-1/#comment-129</link>
		<dc:creator>Fesseequebec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Mar 2006 03:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adelehaze.com/?p=37#comment-129</guid>
		<description>And besides, I don&#039;t want to get shot down in flames :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And besides, I don&#8217;t want to get shot down in flames :)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Fesseequebec</title>
		<link>http://adelehaze.com/grown-up-female-characters-in-spanking-films/comment-page-1/#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator>Fesseequebec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Mar 2006 03:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adelehaze.com/?p=37#comment-128</guid>
		<description>Adele, thanks so much for the response. I think I need to reflect a bit before resuming this dialogue, but I will try to come up with something honest and worthy of the standard of thoughtfulness you&#039;ve set on this topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adele, thanks so much for the response. I think I need to reflect a bit before resuming this dialogue, but I will try to come up with something honest and worthy of the standard of thoughtfulness you&#8217;ve set on this topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://adelehaze.com/grown-up-female-characters-in-spanking-films/comment-page-1/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adelehaze.com/?p=37#comment-127</guid>
		<description>Adele,

I completely understand your ambivalence.  I often see in my logs that my blog has been visited by individuals from countries that are well known for their poor treatment of women.  Perhaps, I hope, these are the more enlightened members of those societies.  Then again, perhaps they are not.

Could my words be encouraging some rogue to abuse a non-consenting woman or girl?  I recoil at the prospect.

I think my blog is pretty clear about the nature of our spanking relationsip.  However, to someone with a limited knowledge of English, those explanations could, I suppose, be lost.

Like you, this possibility is not sufficient to cause me to stop sharing my spanking experiences.  On the whole, I believe we do more considerably good than harm.  Nevertheless, that sliver of doubt remains.

I suppose the ambiguous nature of this subject makes clear, simple answers elusive.  For now, I have something to say and good people who want to hear it.  That will have to do.

Thanks for your insightful words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adele,</p>
<p>I completely understand your ambivalence.  I often see in my logs that my blog has been visited by individuals from countries that are well known for their poor treatment of women.  Perhaps, I hope, these are the more enlightened members of those societies.  Then again, perhaps they are not.</p>
<p>Could my words be encouraging some rogue to abuse a non-consenting woman or girl?  I recoil at the prospect.</p>
<p>I think my blog is pretty clear about the nature of our spanking relationsip.  However, to someone with a limited knowledge of English, those explanations could, I suppose, be lost.</p>
<p>Like you, this possibility is not sufficient to cause me to stop sharing my spanking experiences.  On the whole, I believe we do more considerably good than harm.  Nevertheless, that sliver of doubt remains.</p>
<p>I suppose the ambiguous nature of this subject makes clear, simple answers elusive.  For now, I have something to say and good people who want to hear it.  That will have to do.</p>
<p>Thanks for your insightful words.</p>
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		<title>By: Adele</title>
		<link>http://adelehaze.com/grown-up-female-characters-in-spanking-films/comment-page-1/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>Adele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adelehaze.com/?p=37#comment-125</guid>
		<description>Fess, I&#039;m not sure where your confusion comes from. Is it that because you think feminism necessarily involves anti-porn ideology (or a anti-BDSM ideology, or both)? Sure, Dworkin &amp; Co led a crusade against it, but pro-porn/anti-censorship feminists are really nothing new.

I identify as a feminist, and as such, I claim the right to do with myself (body and mind) just as I please, without an approval from Big Brother (or Big Sister). When I thought it would please me to act out my fantasies in spanking films, I went and started making them. I don&#039;t see it as objectification of my body, but rather as an affirmation of female sexuality (or spankuality). Thus, I don&#039;t see the contradition here. When it&#039;s the model&#039;s fantasy that drives the scene, any subjugation is in the eye of the beholder: it&#039;s as illusory as the idea that the spanker is in control of the scene.

However - and that&#039;s where I feel uneasy - the finished film doesn&#039;t just serve to express my sexuality, and I&#039;m very aware that the aforementioned beholder may actually exist. To this extent, I&#039;m sometimes worried that the conventions of the spanking genre may become a ready breeding ground for creeps of the type cited in the entry up there.

The question is: do I feel the need to restrain the expression of my spankuality just because a number of creeps might take it the wrong way?

Or, if you like, the question could be wider: to what extent are the people who make spanking films responsible for the effects their material has on consumers?

I&#039;ve been wondering about this lately, because it&#039;s been discussed (in a wider porn context) &lt;a href=&quot;http://sugarbank.com/2006/03/07/how-influential-is-porn/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;over here on SugarBank&lt;/a&gt; . I&#039;m not really *concerned* about it, because I haven&#039;t *actually* seen anything that proved to me that anybody was using spanking films as a relationship manual. But I do wonder.

I&#039;m not sure where postfeminism comes into this.

I&#039;m also not sure whether I&#039;ve addressed your confusion, because I can&#039;t *quite* figure out what you&#039;re so confused about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fess, I&#8217;m not sure where your confusion comes from. Is it that because you think feminism necessarily involves anti-porn ideology (or a anti-BDSM ideology, or both)? Sure, Dworkin &#038; Co led a crusade against it, but pro-porn/anti-censorship feminists are really nothing new.</p>
<p>I identify as a feminist, and as such, I claim the right to do with myself (body and mind) just as I please, without an approval from Big Brother (or Big Sister). When I thought it would please me to act out my fantasies in spanking films, I went and started making them. I don&#8217;t see it as objectification of my body, but rather as an affirmation of female sexuality (or spankuality). Thus, I don&#8217;t see the contradition here. When it&#8217;s the model&#8217;s fantasy that drives the scene, any subjugation is in the eye of the beholder: it&#8217;s as illusory as the idea that the spanker is in control of the scene.</p>
<p>However &#8211; and that&#8217;s where I feel uneasy &#8211; the finished film doesn&#8217;t just serve to express my sexuality, and I&#8217;m very aware that the aforementioned beholder may actually exist. To this extent, I&#8217;m sometimes worried that the conventions of the spanking genre may become a ready breeding ground for creeps of the type cited in the entry up there.</p>
<p>The question is: do I feel the need to restrain the expression of my spankuality just because a number of creeps might take it the wrong way?</p>
<p>Or, if you like, the question could be wider: to what extent are the people who make spanking films responsible for the effects their material has on consumers?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been wondering about this lately, because it&#8217;s been discussed (in a wider porn context) <a href="http://sugarbank.com/2006/03/07/how-influential-is-porn/" rel="nofollow">over here on SugarBank</a> . I&#8217;m not really *concerned* about it, because I haven&#8217;t *actually* seen anything that proved to me that anybody was using spanking films as a relationship manual. But I do wonder.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure where postfeminism comes into this.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also not sure whether I&#8217;ve addressed your confusion, because I can&#8217;t *quite* figure out what you&#8217;re so confused about.</p>
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		<title>By: Fesseequebec</title>
		<link>http://adelehaze.com/grown-up-female-characters-in-spanking-films/comment-page-1/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>Fesseequebec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adelehaze.com/?p=37#comment-124</guid>
		<description>Yikes, rereading what I&#039;ve posted I hope I haven&#039;t sounded harsh and judgmental! That wasn&#039;t my intention. Just color me perplexed, that&#039;s all :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yikes, rereading what I&#8217;ve posted I hope I haven&#8217;t sounded harsh and judgmental! That wasn&#8217;t my intention. Just color me perplexed, that&#8217;s all :)</p>
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