S&M video producer in Hungary raided by police

Posted on January 27, 2010 · in Scenology

A reader* has alerted me to an item on a Hungarian news site, according to which a S&M film studio was raided by the police after a model complained that her treatment went further than she had consented. Three people were arrested.

The Google translator rendition is quite garbled as usual, so any Hungarian-speaker would be welcome with a human version of the story. [EDIT: Krampus had a go at translating the story for us. Find his version below, sans the final paragraph - thanks, Krampus!] As far as I can understand, the woman is a vanilla model who signed up to do a S&M shoot purely for the money, and then found that the pain was greater than she wished to experience. She claims that although her contract contained a safeword, this was not honoured when she used it.

The most interesting information is contained in the last paragraph. If I decyphered it correctly, it looks like the producers can be prosecuted not only on the basis of this incident, but for any previous film they had made, as in Hungarian law consent isn’t a defence against an assault (?) charge. Therefore, modelling contracts aren’t an expression of consent.

The article doesn’t name the producer, but both Mood Pictures and Elite Pain appear to be offline.

* Identify yourself in the comments if you wish – and thanks for writing in.

EDIT. A partial translation by Krampus:

Beaten woman reports SM filming to police.

On Sunday the police cracked down on the shooting of an illegal SM porno film. After some delay a woman who was brutally beaten in a studio in Ujpest [a neighbourhood not far from central Budapest] reported the matter to the police. This emerged at the police’s press conference on Wednesday. There are three suspects.

[photograph captioned: Implements from the scene]

At the weekend the police pounced on the location of the shooting of a porno film in Budapest IV, and were thus able to interrupt the shooting of an SM film. Several people were taken away; in all three men were suspected of violations of personal freedom and causing bodily harm.

At the press conference police superintendent Jozsef Baranyi reported that in the past week the Ujpest police station had received an anonymous letter written in a shaky hand. He added that the letter had been written by a mother of seven who was thus one of the injured. The woman left her mobile so that the police were able to contact her number in the letter.

The woman had replied to a job advertisement promising a remuneration of between 100,000 and 200,000 forint . There was no mention of sex, but nuditywas a requirement. It was emphatically stated that it did not involve any work. The woman was unemployed, in an extremely bad financial situation, and therefore replied to the advertisement. She signed a contract, but did not receive a copy. They explained that it was all about a sado-masochistic shoot, but they lied when they told her that she would be very lightly hit, or only pretend-hit and she would play at feeling pain.

When they came to the studio in Ujpest, to the revolving stage, they tied her to a bed and immediately began to beat her. Another r woman had to thrash her with a cane, a whip and a wide plastic thing. Later they they tied her to a bench and to an iron pipe. There was a moment when the woman who was being thrashed was no longer able to bear the beating. A sign had previously agreed and they had promised that if she said the word they would stop the beating. According to the superintendent the sign was that she should say “Stop it, I beg you, my lord!” . However, she begged in vain, the producer took over thrashing her and the woman was beaten until she was bleeding.

At the studio they offered recordings of sessions for sale, but it was also possible , for money, to watch live, active sessions on line. According to the police, many of the videos shot in the studio recorded long-drawn-out brutal beatings. In the studio there was also a room fitted out like a hospital pharmacy, with medicines and painkillers. In that place thee was an orderly of the medical ambulance service whose job it was to provide first aid. They questioned him as the sole witness.

According to the report the police observed the place on the weekend of 23-24 January, but on Saturday they pounced. The raid was a success as a result of the strong police action because the studio was protected by strong security. In reply to a question the superintendent said that the studio had been set up in a disused house in Szilagyi Street. A total of 14 persons stepped forward, among them the injured parties and the witness, and finally also the three suspects. They had arrested one of the three men but they had not gone on to keep him in custody: for the present he remained a free man. The superintendent resolutely denied the news report that a policemen would also be found to be involved in this business. Among the persons injured in the SM film shoot up to now there were five well-known women who had also reported the matter to the police, but the police were still looking for more persons who had been injured. The superintendent thought there might be more than ten, and he believed they might include a number of males. According to information obtained none of the injured was under 18.

Comments

129 Responses to “S&M video producer in Hungary raided by police”

Dan on January 27th, 2010 9:54 pm

If you watch the video of the raid, the camera lingers on an upright St. Andrew’s Cross that is somewhat unique in design. It looks very very similar to one that I’ve seen in video from Elite Pain.

It was an ugly SWAT-team style raid, too.

Unfortunately I don’t know much about their shooting practices. We know that as a general matter, when BDSM pornographers get raided there is ALWAYS an allegation that a model didn’t give adequate consent. I doubt we’ll ever know the truth about this one — too much distance and language barrier.
Adele on January 27th, 2010 9:56 pm

I don’t know, Dan. Hungary has a scene; something may seep through.
HelloMrAllen on January 27th, 2010 11:26 pm

A friend sent me just the link. Foolishly (for me) I just opened it and then watched the video. I presumed it a scene then EEK! and ran for the google translator.

The case, if one is made, may be difficult to follow but have saved some key Hungarian words for later searches to try. I don’t know any kink friendly native speakers :( It looks like the model that is at the centre of this event is vanilla although they would not be publishing her presumed scene name; similarly, it could be a concerned mother discovering the physical condition of her daughter.
Ludwig on January 28th, 2010 6:26 am

Yes, a friend of mine who runs a German-language BDSM news site just alerted me to the story. Apparently, a model claims that she was tied up and the beating continued even though she asked them to stop. This caused the raid and the arrests.

If the accusations are true, then they are of course very serious. I didn’t see anything of the sort when I visited Mood last year – everything was 100% consensual there and all the models were in good spirits after the shoot.

We’ll have to wait and see what develops. I don’t have any inside information. I hadn’t heard from Mood in weeks, anyway, and I don’t know anything more than what is public knowledge at this point.

I’ll probably make a post about the affair early February, by which time we will hopefully know more.
Tom Rohwer on January 28th, 2010 2:45 pm

I now got a first valid translation of that story.

In short:

Mood Pictures aquires “models” via advertisements in newspapers. A mother of 7 children lacking money answers to one of those advertisements.

She claims to get hired by MP for a payment of 100.000 – 200.000 Forint (depending from the content to be filmed) – that’s ~350 to 700 Euro.

The women claims that she signed a model release but got no copy of it.

This woman was hired as a TOP. She was told to beat a bound-up girl with canes, whips etc.

While that CP-scene was filmed the SUB called out a save-word which was agreed upon before the filming starts. The woman wanted to stop the scene then but one of the producers ignored the safe-word and took over and continued beatint that sub girl.

That is, in short, the accusation made by that woman hired as a top.

This woman send an anonymous letter to the police in Budapest, but included her cell phone number in that letter so that she could be identified.

The Budapest police already had got some more complaints against Mood Pictures in the recent time. So the police starts to observe the companies office and studio building for a few days.

Then special police task force raided the building and arrested three producers and some models. A police spokesman said that the building had unusual safety installations and that had been the reason for bringing in the SWAT unit.

One of the three produces is allegedly a member of the hungarian police force himself.

The police spokesman denied that information at a press conference.

————————————-

At present I am using some media contacts in Budapest (I’m a journalist myself) for some deeper investigation of the whole issue.

I will also try to contact the Mood Pictures producers so that they may tell their version of that story.

You will find current information about the case at http://www.art-noir.de .

In the moment only in german language but we will set up an english language version of that coverage til the end of this week.

So – stay tuned. ;-)

Tom Rohwer
Adele on January 28th, 2010 2:48 pm

Thanks for the info, Tom!
Tom Rohwer on January 28th, 2010 3:05 pm

I think it’s time that the bdsm scene gets some plain newspaper or newsmagazine for its own. No erotic or porn stuff but just unbiased news coverage.

I was part in the staff of such a magazine in Germany for eight years (the somewhat legendary “S/M-Depesche” which was published monthly from 1992 to 1999 and quartely in 2000 as a printed paper with a circulation of some 1,000 pieces).

I think ArtNoir should substantially boost that section. (It’s a stub for the moment…)
Adele on January 28th, 2010 3:08 pm

That’s certainly something that’s missing in the global scene right now. I’d like there to be a place for scene news, but don’t have the know-how to do it myself.
Nimue on January 28th, 2010 6:02 pm

Even with a scene newspaper or something like that, i dont think we’d ever find out the truth about things like this. It seems imho very handed to go in with a SWAT team after one accusation from a model. Maybe there’s more to this than first meets the eye?
Pandora on January 28th, 2010 8:25 pm

Thanks for the info, Tom – the fact that it was another top who reported it casts a different light on the story. Will be fascinated to hear updates.
krampus on January 28th, 2010 8:30 pm

The German text in Art Noir doesn’t have anything about the complainant having been engaged as a top or doing any beating.
Tom Rohwer on January 29th, 2010 2:02 am

@krampus: that’s correct – the status of information given here is a little bit more update than the information on the website.

We will publish an update soon.
Tom Rohwer on January 29th, 2010 2:02 pm

An english version of the article is now online:

http://www.art-noir.de/redaktionell/mood_pictures_english.html

Until now nothing new to report. Updates will be posted at the adress given above.
Frants on January 29th, 2010 9:06 pm

There’s a lot (54) of comments from readers on a link from the Hungarian paper.
Worth translating?
-
To the case itself: an effective stop word would be “now stop you bastards, this is beyond our contract, I’ll name and sue and report you, etc out of script”…
Frants on January 29th, 2010 10:20 pm

Can it be a hoax? All staged?
Not very likely. Too silly.
But why did the police bring in TV in an armed operation? And what was the model doing inside that chest or suitcase box? Why the printed pics of whipped models? Where was ‘the Monk’?
Was there any sound in your streaming? I got no sound.
This is all very strange.
Frants on January 29th, 2010 10:34 pm

And what is said here, in a documentary about Mood Castings?
http://tenyek.tv2.hu/Videok/2010-01-28-Maradando_serulesek_Tenyek_rip

(ok, now I have sound)
Frants on January 29th, 2010 11:15 pm

http://tenyek.tv2.hu/Videok/2010-01-27-Szadista_pornosok_Tenyek_ripor

More video in Hungarian.
No, this is no hoax.
Frants on January 29th, 2010 11:29 pm

- ad here a long speach on the ’szexmentes’ and sm film in maybe a press conference, I dont understand a word:
http://tenyek.tv2.hu/Videok/2010-01-27-Szexmentes_meztelenkedos_munka
Mark on January 30th, 2010 5:28 am

Consent is not a defense in many places, including US states that most people presume to be liberal, including California and Hawaii. I defended one of these cases, lost at trial, then won on appeal. From that experience, I can assure everyone that this is a real worry everywhere, and could happen almost anywhere. The videos are proof of “crimes” and consent is not a defense to the obvious “assault.” Such cases were brought in California several times with very unfortunate results. People have gotten more comfortable making such videos, and the risk seems to be ignored, but the law has never changed, and is there waiting for an prosecutor with a taste for publicity.
ADC on January 30th, 2010 10:12 am

You know, this story doesn’t surprise me at all. Mood Pictures are evil. They pander to the worst, most misogynistic elements. Their use of vanilla models, who are just in it for the money, and are then subjected to the most brutal and sadistic torments is disgusting, frankly. It’s everything we should oppose.

Spanking porn is all about the sub. It’s about mutuality and fantasy. That’s what I love about Northern Spanking: you know the girls, you know they’re in it for the right reasons, even when they go to a dark place you know they’ll come back again with a smile. Genuine spanking enthusiasts should want nothing to do with Mood Pictures and its twisted and exploitative practices. I read about this raid and thought, why did it take so long?
Mike on January 30th, 2010 2:51 pm

Mood Pictures are extreme, but I’m not sure they are evil. Clearly if they ignored a safe word their position would be indefensible. However, as Adele has pointed out, there is so far just one woman’s word for that and then only according to the police.

Their models are by no means all vanilla. For example the blonde girl in Victim appears as a domme in Amazons. Her marks from a severe caning in Victim were consistent with the effects on a regular player.

I know of at least one (female) player on the UK scene who has contacted Mood with a view to participating. Occasional participation as a sub in the extreme CP scene has attractions for some of us even though you know that quite early on you would do anything to stop it – except use the safe word.

If Mood are genuinely consensual, they should be able to produce a string of witnesses in their defence. If they are not, it is curious that no one has complained until now. This is a classic example of the need to hear both sides of the story before reaching a conclusion

Finally, what Mark says about consent is very relevant. Except in the case of “manly” sports like boxing, consent is also not a defence to a charge of “actual bodily harm” in English law. However there is at least one precedent (a husband who consensually branded his wife on her bottom) where the courts have recently taken a different view. The relevant English law seems to be evolving.
Spankfun on January 30th, 2010 2:58 pm

When the police is raiding a producer of spanking videos, usually this should raise eyebrowes. But here it seems to be different: Recruiting vanilla models with zero experience in spanking, getting them to participate in the harshest spanking videos which are currently available and providing pain killers and the necessary medical stuff – sorry, that doesn’t fit to “safe, sane and consensual”.

By the way, there is another Hungarian producers (spanking experience) who shows that it’s not necessarily the Hungarian style to do it a la “Mood”. No regret if they are history now.
Ludwig on January 30th, 2010 5:05 pm

@ ADC: You know, I’m less comfortable about throwing around statements like “x is evil”. I leave that to George W. Bush!

Seriously, I think we would be well-advised to judge this affair only when all the facts are in. If the accusations are valid, then it would be very sad indeed – especially for people like me who have in the past and in good faith defended Mood Pictures. On the other hand, I’ve seen enough awful, sensationalist reporting over the years to not place too much faith in what is being written in the mainstream media about us spankos. Remember the treatment which Lucy and Paul of Northern Spanking, whom you mention in your comment, received not too long ago from the British tabloid press?

As of now, there are several things about this story that need to be cleared up before we know what is fact and what is fiction. For one thing, Tom Rohwer in his translation of the Hungarian article claims that it was one of the tops, not one of the spankees, who wrote the letter to the police. Krampus, in his translation of the same article, says it was one of the spankees. One of the translations is clearly wrong, about a very significant detail.

Furthermore, about these passages:

“[The producers] explained that it was all about a sado-masochistic shoot, but they lied when they told her that she would be very lightly hit, or only pretend-hit and she would play at feeling pain.”

The spankees in the shoot I attended definitely knew that the canings would be real and severe. As a matter of fact, several of them had done videos with Mood before.

“When they came to the studio in Ujpest, to the revolving stage, they tied her to a bed and immediately began to beat her.”

Mood record all the “non-action” scenes first, and the CP scenes at the very end of the shoot. Pedro told me that they usually start with the CP around 10 PM, and in the shoot I attended, we started even later. The claim that the producers “tied her to a bed and immediately began to beat her” when they arrived at the studio doesn’t really fit with that.

“At the studio they offered recordings of sessions for sale, but it was also possible, for money, to watch live, active sessions on line.”

This is totally new to me as well, and I’m not sure it sounds believable. Maybe they are confusing movie downloads with “live, active session”?

As I said: if these accusations are true, then it is very sad news indeed. Given that I visited Mood once and wrote about it on my blog, I take them seriously, and I have an interest in the truth coming out – after all, it is possible that I was mislead about Mood’s business practices, too.

However, in my opinion, there are quite a few question marks over this article (or rather, the translations we have of it). And I think we need to know more about how much of it is really accurate.
Adele on January 30th, 2010 5:13 pm

I don’t like Mood and never have, but, in fairness to them, hiring vanilla models is pretty much the industry standard. (not one I’m overly fond of, either, but it’s there.

I’m reluctant to say that, just because a woman is vanilla, she is incapable of giving consent. It has to be informed consent though, and safewords must be honoured.
Frants on January 30th, 2010 6:03 pm

If what allegedly happened is true, that one director (now who could that be) intervened and ignoring a “stop” word went on flogging, he must have intended this footage to be included in the edited film. That means that if they were not threatened with police report, that footage would be on some disk when they were raided. So they would have made the evidence to be sentenced or aquitted. And if they did have serious issues with a woman they whipped and so erazed it all, would they go on with new shootings as if nothing had happened?
The recordings will be witness.
Time will show.
No one has been detained, or?
- The story seems to be only in one TV/newspaper. Why?
Tyke on January 30th, 2010 9:22 pm

A look at Ludwigs blog suggests that the people at Mood don’t take too kindly to safewords. In one of his blogs on his shoot there he says that Mood stopped using safewords as the models used them too often! (Not surprising giving the extreme nature of their shoots). Then in the description of one of the canings he gave..” By number forty-something, she was at her limit again, banging her hands on the wooden bench and screaming: “Stop, stop, stop…!” Max Lomp signalled to me that I should go on, and I did.”

A model had had enough, and the producer said to go on anyway. Even if she was eventually ok with it – should that be defended? Couldn’t she have complained to the police if she had a mind to? I can enjoy severity where it’s clear all parties know what they are doing, and get some satisfaction at the end of it however harsh things are while they occur. (Hey, I was a member of Insex for years, and was watching when a livefeed was raided by the police!). But even only looking at their less extreme shoots, Mood/Elite Pain disturb me by the apparent complete lack of concern for vanilla models in hysterics, and marks that will last for months. They give CP/BDSM a bad name and I’d be glad to see them go.
Ludwig on January 31st, 2010 1:59 am

@ Tyke: Yes, the episode you mention (at the end of the second caning scene I did) was the one thing I didn’t feel good about.

At the time, I figured that the caning was almost over, anyway (stroke forty-something out of fifty), and that the best thing to do – and the easiest on the girl, in a way – would be to just get to the end quickly now, instead of having yet another interruption. Afterwards, upon some reflection, I decided that I wouldn’t do something like that again, and that I should have stopped the scene. I decided this long before I learned about the current accusations against Mood.

The girl in the scene in question, Tammy Lange, was very much okay afterwards. Actually, she did another Mood video a month or two later, so she certainly wasn’t traumatised by the experience.

Still, this episode is something I would do differently today.
Tom Rohwer on January 31st, 2010 3:15 am

“For one thing, Tom Rohwer in his translation of the Hungarian article claims that it was one of the tops, not one of the spankees, who wrote the letter to the police. Krampus, in his translation of the same article, says it was one of the spankees. One of the translations is clearly wrong, about a very significant detail.”

I do not speak hungarian – and I definitely do not found any “translating machine” (Google i.e.) which gave a translation that gave any sense.

So I asked a hungarian model (living in Austria for 13 years) to translate that text. She is a native speaker.

The whole thing will get definitely clear as soon as I have an official report from the Budapest police department.

I’m sure that it will be possible to get this point verified.
Tom Rohwer on January 31st, 2010 3:58 am

“If what allegedly happened is true, that one director (now who could that be) intervened and ignoring a “stop” word went on flogging, he must have intended this footage to be included in the edited film.”

IF that video still exists: yes.

The police raid do not happened while that shooting. It happened several days later.

- Should that video had been deleted or otherwise disappeared prior to the police raid some really critical questions would arise.

- Should the whole thing be some hysteric over reaction by this model it should be possible to prove this with that evidence.

But maybe the truth may lie somewhere in the middle…

As a sadomasochist with some 20 years personal experience in real life and some 10 years experience in producing bdsm/fetish content I have learned that things are sometimes not “black or white”.

Ignoring a “stop” or a safe word *may* be justified by some “meta consens” unknown to other people at the scene. And “vanillas” or people with less practical experience *may* misunderstand something.

If something like this happened it clearly shows the weak point of Mood’s practices (in my opinion an my observance): the occasional lack of communication and the occasional lack of … respect and compassion for their models.

I confess without hesitating: I like a lot of Mood’s work. And if the storyline is: girl is beaten black and blue and treated like shit – then a *good* movie have to show a girl beaten black and blue and treated like shit.

But the “Mood Casting” videos for instance often show a very… cold and impersonal way dealing with their models.

Imagine: a girl of 18 or 28 years, maybe a vanilla, maybe a girl with a masochistic streak, comes to the “Mood Pictures” office. For a “casting”.

She knows little about what will happen. Most of that models never had been caned before. Now they get 50 strokes with a cane. Hard strokes.

(Let us forget for a moment that some of the Mood girls are not what you would call a “master of accuracy”… Let us forget for a moment all that rather instable furniture and that inconvenient positions in many of that castings.)

The girl who is been “casted” gets 50 strokes. Painfull strokes. Afterwards her butt is welted and bruised and often even bleeding a little bit.

If that would be *my* company I now would take that girl into my arms. Congratulate. Offer a drink. Ask whether she would like to lay down for a while. Whether she needs some pampering. Some treatment.

And by the way – my cameraman would show her bruised butt at least for one minute. We want to enjoy that look.

At “Mood Castings” it is: “Thank you. Now put your clothes on again. Don’t call us we call you. Good bye.”

The complete casting lasts for some 10 to 15 minutes…

*aargs*

If I would do a casting like that it would last 4 hours – minimum. With a lot of talking before and a lot of talking afterwards. And I hope the girl would leave thinking “Shit! That hurts! But regarding to their reactions it seems that I have delivered a really outstanding performance.”

I do not know whether Mood’s castings are substantially longer than shown in that clips. Honestly – I doubt it.

Either for film or for a real life bdsm scenario you may treat a woman (or a guy) like a dirty worthless bitch and beat her black and blue and torture her to the edge. Nothing wrong with that if there is at least a kind of “meta consens”.

But if that’s over you should treat her as a queen. She deserves it. She had EARNED herself that treatment.

That girl had volunteered to get her butt beaten into a mess for OUR delight. So a little bit of salute is more than appropriate.

That is it what I often miss a litte in Mood’s movies – and that’s what I find so often at Lupus Pictures (at least in their “making of galleries”).

And for me that “way of Mood Pictures” seemes to be a rather good precondition for getting some vanilla model top to misunderstand the whole thing.

(Hope that my english do not require too much masochistic inclination from my readers…)
krampus on January 31st, 2010 4:00 am

The link postd by Frants on 29t Jan seems to be the statement by the police superintedent quoted in the piece I translated. However he spoke too fast for me to be able to check whether the press statement was an accurate transcript of what he said.
krampus on January 31st, 2010 4:20 am

I’d be interested to know whether the woman who complained got her 100-000 or 200 000 forint – or any remuneration whatsoever?
Frants on January 31st, 2010 12:12 pm

One other link I posted was to a ‘report’ clip that included parts of a Mood Casting (‘Yvette’). In that film, as in all other MC films, the candidate is informed that the goal is set to 50 hard strokes, but that she can ask for a pause or stop the whole thing when she will. After the caning she is told that she took the pain very well indeed. (Subtitles)
Many candidates give up after 5, 10 or 30 strokes.

In ‘behind the scenes’ footage on regular Mood dvds there is applause from all present, crew and actors, when a flogging scene is ended. And hugs, care and laughter.
Tyke on January 31st, 2010 1:19 pm

@Ludwig: I’m pleased to hear the girl was fine afterwards and was ok enough with it to do another film. And I appreciate that you were honest enough to include details such as that in your report. To my mind, if you’re topping someone you don’t know, can’t read the body language of, and haven’t played with before to build up mutual trust, then a clear ’stop’ signal has to mean stop straight away – and it sounds like you’ve come to that decision yourself as well. Thanks for the reply.

Tom – I agree with you 100% with what you say about treating a model like a queen at the end of the shoot. While I saw livefeeds at Insex comparable in severity to what Mood/Elite Pain do, you also saw (and via online chat, participated in to a degree) the care and congratulations given at the end of the show. From some accounts Insex wasn’t like this all the time, but for most of what you saw it was. There, a number of times I saw PD call a halt when the model was willing to go on, because of concern shw was too far into sub-space to truly be giving informed consent, or worry that damage may be done if the beating went on. From what I’ve seen of the Mood company, they seem to always be pushing as far as they can, with not much evidence of consideration for the model.

I know not all their models are vanilla – the ELite Castings shoots (the main thing of their I’ve watched) can be quite interesting, and e.g. Berte Black (who went on to be in several Elite films I think) did come across as a genuinely kinky girl. And if someone’s been through a ‘castings’ shoot they wouldn’t be going into making a film ignorant that it’s all for real, as is suggested of the model in the report. Even so, the way the girls appear to be viewed and treated (admittedly only from what I’ve seen and heard) doesn’t seem good to me.
ADC on January 31st, 2010 1:25 pm

I admit I used the term “evil” partly to rile Ludwig. In the past I’ve found his complacency about, and collaboration with, the Mood MO rather disturbing, especially in such a talented writer. He almost manages to make it sound OK. It isn’t.

Tom Rohwer: “The girl who is been “casted” gets 50 strokes. Painfull strokes. Afterwards her butt is welted and bruised and often even bleeding a little bit.” This is someone who may have walked in off the street, who is doing it out of desperation for money, who doesn’t know her limits or what she’s let herself in for. An experienced submissive really isn’t in the same category – though even there, I do have severe doubts about this sort of material. As Tyke says, they give us a bad name.

To compare this with Lucy and Paul’s situation is bizarre, frankly.

I was also a bit disconcerted by this from Tom:

And if the storyline is: girl is beaten black and blue and treated like shit – then a *good* movie have to show a girl beaten black and blue and treated like shit.

How does this differ from saying “If the storyline is ‘girl is killed’ than a good movie will have to include an actual murder”? That’s where this sort of extreme capitalistic libertarianism leads. I’m sure it would be possible to find volunteers who consent to being killed on camera – that cannibal found someone who agreed to be eaten, after all. It doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be laws against it.
Frants on January 31st, 2010 2:23 pm

ADC: “I was also a bit disconcerted by this from Tom:
And if the storyline is: girl is beaten black and blue and treated like shit – then a *good* movie have to show a girl beaten black and blue and treated like shit.”
But that is the storyline! Behind the scenes footage on many Mood dvds show plenty of concern for the model. And we some times see the model smiling or joking after the main camera has finished shooting the scene.
In Mood/EP they some times like a storyline that can be very cruel and unfair, f ex in the competitons and Pain Factory. That doesnt mean the reality is so.
See how many girls keep coming back, again and again. Also vanillas, who find the job worth it.
Let’s hope they will not be out of work now.
If you have the chance, watch the interviews. When Mood opens again.
krampus on January 31st, 2010 4:37 pm

How do you distinguish between a cruel beating and a non-cruel one? By the number of whacks? The cries of the victim? the glee of the beater? What the victim says before it’s all over or aft it’s all over? Or the degree of aversion, if any, produced in(a) the people who’ll pay to see it or(b) the people who can’t bear to see it? (Forget the Person on the Clapham Omnibus).
Tom Rohwer on January 31st, 2010 5:14 pm

@ADC:
“Tom Rohwer: “The girl who is been “casted” gets 50 strokes. Painfull strokes. Afterwards her butt is welted and bruised and often even bleeding a little bit.” This is someone who may have walked in off the street, who is doing it out of desperation for money, who doesn’t know her limits or what she’s let herself in for”

She is an adult and entitled to vote, to marry, to raise a mortgage. So she *is* responsible for her own actions. She is not forced – she does it voluntarily.

“I was also a bit disconcerted by this from Tom:

And if the storyline is: girl is beaten black and blue and treated like shit – then a *good* movie have to show a girl beaten black and blue and treated like shit.

How does this differ from saying “If the storyline is ‘girl is killed’ than a good movie will have to include an actual murder”?”

It is inadequate to compare bdsm actions and murder.

By the way: a boxer agrees in getting his nose broken and getting brain concussions when he enteres the boxing ring.

A bottum beaten black and blue is something in which an adult may consent. BDSM people do that for their personal pleasure tenthousand times all over the world every day – so why should people not consent in it for a movie?

What “Mood Pictures” is showing in its movies is hard stuff – but stuff that is consenting and loving reality for bdsm people all over the world.

@Frants:
“And we some times see the model smiling or joking after the main camera has finished shooting the scene.”

That’s clearly true. I checked a lot of “Mood Pictures” content in the last few days. There are “caring scenes” and “funny scenes” from making of footage, too. I am shure that in many cases everything went very well. The question still is: had they done enough to avoid things going bad?

I feel not capable to answer that question. I can only ask it.

@krampus:
“How do you distinguish between a cruel beating and a non-cruel one? By the number of whacks? The cries of the victim? the glee of the beater?”

I do not distinguish between a “cruel beating” and a “non-cruel one”.

Why should I do so?

As a sadomasochist with some personal experience I know that there is a vast span between soft bdsm and hard bdsm. What is considered “soft” and what “hard” depends largely from the individual’s measurement. And to a rather small amount to some objective measurement.

A 500-strokes-caning (with hard and “no kidding strokes”) can be considered a “hard caning” at all. No one with bdsm or caning experience will object I think. (I have administered such canings so I am able to speak about it on a basis of practical experience.)

A 10-strokes-caning (with hard and “no kidding strokes”) will be consired as “hard, painfull and going to the edge” by some spankees. Other will say: “Are you kidding? I want to be caned – not to be teased.”

For a non-bdsm vanilla a 50-strokes-caning will be hard stuff in most cases. Nevertheless I met a masochist woman with some masochistic phantasies but no real experience at all who took a hard 60-strokes-caning as here first spanking experience ever – and smiled and and was obviously happy afterwards. Her butt was bruised and welted like some Lupus or Mood butts…

So it’s mostly a matter of relativity.
Tom Rohwer on January 31st, 2010 5:20 pm

I like to make it absolutely clear:

In my opinion the question is not “Do somebody like Mood Pictures videos? Are MP videos are too hard?”

The solely question is: “Did Mood Pictures their work on a basis of mutual consent and respect all the times? Or had some models be pressed in a clearly inappropriate way or had some models be forced to do things against their clearly outspoken will?”

That’s the question of law – and morale.

The question whether the “well understood professional standards of bdsm movie production” had been met by Mood Pictures in all cases at any times is another question.

That is a point where customers could say: “It may be legal and it may be not immoral – but I would like you to treat this great girl with a little bit more respect anyway.”
Ludwig on January 31st, 2010 5:55 pm

@ ADC: I appreciate the fact that you are voicing your disagreement in a civil and non-insulting manner, which is more than I can say about some of the vitriol-laden (and orthographically challenged) tirades I’ve heard about Mood in the past.

“In the past I’ve found [Ludwig's] complacency about, and collaboration with, the Mood MO rather disturbing, especially in such a talented writer. He almost manages to make it sound OK. It isn’t.”

It is true that I have defended Mood against various sweeping and outlandish accusations (kidnapping and drugging girls, using mentally ill girls, and so on…), because they simply aren’t true. On the other hand, there have always been aspects of the Mood MO which I’ve been critical of, such as the inaccuracy of their tops – you can read it in my behind-the-scenes report (in my remarks about Lady Jessica), you can read it in several movie reviews (where I criticise how “woefully and dangerously inaccurate” some of the tops are), and God knows I’ve raised the subject more than once in private conversations with Pedro.

So, no, I don’t think it is fair to say that I’ve been complacent and one-sided. There were always elements of criticism, and I believe that the perceptive ones among my readers are aware of this.

Furthermore, have you considered the possibility that, maybe, what you perceive to be my complacency about Mood is directly connected with what you call “riling”? In other words, if people weren’t throwing around terms like “evil”, “sick”, “perverted” and whatnot, maybe I wouldn’t have found it necessary to defend the company as strongly as I did? On the other hand, when people are voicing their criticism in a less polemic and more nuanced manner, they are going to get a more nuanced reply from me as well.

“To compare this with Lucy and Paul’s situation is bizarre, frankly.”

It is, but that was precisely my point: Lucy and Paul are two of the loveliest and most well-liked people in the UK scene, and they produce content that is totally unlike Mood’s. And still, in the press, they were made to look like dodgy people. My point is, I want to know how much of what this article says is really accurate, and I want clarity about a few points before I’m going to make a judgment.
Frants on January 31st, 2010 9:20 pm

I find it a bit strange that the police brought a commercial TV crew in a raid where they found it necessary to use storm troopers with submachine guns. A TV crew from a net paper that is the only one to cover the affair. Time for conspiracy theories? Does this remind me of the ‘nazi sm orgy’ in the home of that car race celeb in the UK? Their excuse is that the Mood security seemed so heavy. Did it consist of that bodybuilder we see under ’security by’ in Mood credentials? Was it responsible then to bring civilians to film it?
Was it a matter of dramaturgy?
Did Tenyak pay for this?
Ludwig on January 31st, 2010 9:49 pm

I have received an email from Pedro by now. In short, he denies the accusation that the girl was forced to go through with the scene against her will. I am currently asking for his permission to quote from his email and to use it on my blog. I will make a post about the whole affair sometime next week.

@ Frants: I don’t think it is time for conspiracy theories, but you don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to know that policemen and public prosecutors like to see their names in the papers. Indeed, the fact that they apparently brought along a TV crew to film the raid is telling, And I, too, doubt that it was really necessary to storm the building with a SWAT team wielding submachine guns. I mean, seriously, who were they expecting to encounter inside? Al Capone and a heavily armed brigade of gangsters? If someone, someday, accidentally gets shot during such a raid, it will no doubt be blamed on the evil porn producers as well.

The police spokesman quoted in the article claims that the building was protected by “strong security”, which required the SWAT team. I did not notice any such thing during my own visit. I noticed a regular front door, which was open most of the time, because people were constantly walking in and out during the shoot, taking breaks, smoking cigarettes and so on…
Frants on January 31st, 2010 11:40 pm

Tények.hu Riport today: I see the weather in Hungary is much like in Norway…..
duncan bryant on February 1st, 2010 11:44 pm

what should i do i boughed moods new release on jan24 the money has been taken of my card also they taken out the money for mood-art . mood-pictures is complettly honest this is not there falt when i had a prolbem they very good about helping very professional if you havent seen mood-art you need to its great good luck mood duncan
Adele on February 2nd, 2010 9:35 am

Duncan, if you’ve subscribed to Mood previously, have a look at your previous bank statements, and see what company Mood used to process your payments. (It will probably be a separate processing company, not in Hungary, that deals with subscriptions to lots of porn sites.) If you search for them online, maybe you’ll be able to find a contact address to ask them what to do.

I’m not an expert though, so if anybody has a better idea, I’ll be glad to hear it.
Tar on February 2nd, 2010 11:24 am

Hi Duncan, Adele is right! They use/used separate processing companies and there must be an advice on your bank/credit card statement. I know that one of their partners is/was inet-cash.com. They are located in Germany and so maybe not responsible for your transaction. But I guess they have some basic information for you, maybe more. Try to contact Mood too, as far as possible at the moment and write about your billing problem. Do you have one of their support e-mail addresses? Try to stay relaxed, because it´ll take time to solve your problem but I think it´s just a matter of time, I hope so.
duncan bryant on February 3rd, 2010 3:10 am

thanks adele ,tar spreview,an pandora for the help i hope mood -pictures gets back on line soon if i lose my monny i have still had a lot of fun with mood-pictures i live in a small town hillsboro ohio usa not much to do here but thats life every where so what fun we get out of life lets enjoy it it goes so fast duncan thanks again
Adam on February 3rd, 2010 4:46 pm

@Tom
The whole thing is sloppy production.

A “meta consens” argument is tantamount to hearsay- having much less weight than testimony from any witness to the vocalized safe word, which everyone was seemingly aware of, not being honored.

There needs to be consensus on safe words, and witness to their establishment – production in this genre by any other means is completely irresponsible, and creates opportunity for ambiguity and as we see severe consequences.
Adam on February 3rd, 2010 5:02 pm
Lord Fafner on February 3rd, 2010 5:19 pm

The whole operation seems to me a bad joke. Much more after reading about the incredible and surrealistic story given by magyar police.Swats with automatic guns, men and women lying down on the floor, Tv reports…What is this, Al Qaeda?? I’m afraid someone needed to demonstrate all the world that, once again, law and order are going to fall, fullweight, over these pervs…Easy, very very easy. Remember: “First, they came for the jews, then…” etc, etc. Nothing new under the sun.
Frants on February 3rd, 2010 7:05 pm

It seems this is another article – it names Mood and Elite Pain. Also OWK.
Can our Magyar connection look at it?

http://www.blikk.hu/blikk_cikkhozzaszolas/?cid=2009749

ASANDOR777 2010-01-28 15:15:41 #45
Azért néhány dolgot figyelembe kéne venni evvel a studióval kapcsolatosan. Ami tény az elitepain ill. mood pictures filmek készitői talán a legmesszebb mentek el e műfaj gyártásában. Soha elötte ilyen filmeket egyetlen stúdió sem készített, nem is furcsa, hogy ezáltal felkeltette az eziránt érdeklődő nem magyarok érdeklődését. Megjyegyezni kívánom, hogy a filmeket Magyaroszágon nem forgalmazták, a Cég webes felülete nem volt elérhető. Természetesen illegálisan a filmek nagyon is keringtek a hazai érdeklődők körében, pont az egyedisége miatt, dehát ez ellen sokat lépni nem lehetett.. Néhány hete a TV 2 illetve az RTL is bemutatta a céget, végigvezetve a forgatókat a stúdióban a forgatáson. Ez ellen persze soha senki nem tett semmi panaszt. Álláspontom szerint nem igaz, hogy a női illetve a férfi szereplők nem tudtak arról, miylen filmekben szerepelnének. 1-Rengeteg ismételten feltünt női szereplők voltak a filmekben. Elég csak ha valaki külföldön itt Angliában belenézett a női casting szereplők életrejzába. VOltak olyan hölgyek, aki jóformán minden filmben szerepltek. A bemutó castingon a producer felhívta mindig a figyelmét a jelentkezőknek, hogy milyen filmek ezek., s mik a követelmények. Az úgynevezett próbafelvételeken ha a kliens meggondolta magát, akkor mehetett isten hírével, persze pénz nélkül. A filmezésen az itt terjedő fórumok szerint versenyszellem uralkodott.. tehát versenyeztették a jelölteket, Aki győzött vagyis a legtöbbet tudta adni ill. kapni, az vitte el a pénzt. Aki alulmaradt, iiletve veszített az duplán járt rosszul. Nem kapott egy vasat sem.Persze ezt tudta előre. Legjobb példa erre egy lány, aki sírva fakadt a “játék” végén, hogy az ellenfele vitte el a pálmát ill. a pénzt., mert ő nem tudta elviselni a torturát. tessék elolvasni amerikai, angol ezirányu fórumokat. Innen Angliából ment Magyarországra egy angol pár, hogy részt vehessen ezen a szeánszon. A filmek végén mindig imegkérdzték a lányokat mi a véleményük a lezajlott dolgokró. Soha egyetlen lány nem rémüldözött, ami már kételyt támaszthat. A filmben sikongatnak, a végén meg jókedvűen nevetgélnel, sőt máskor is szivesen elmennek a forgatásra. Álláspontom szerint itt egészen másról van szó. Kicsinyes bosszúállásról, a konkurencia beavatkozásáról. Mert ne legyenek kétségeink. Az orosz /russian discipline// amerikai/ paingate / vagy akár a cseh / OWK, stb filmejei emiatt hanyatlásnak indultak. Persze tessék végigpásztázni a magyar szexhirdetéseket a neten.Tele vannak mazó igényű jelentkezőkkel, akik még ingyen is elvállalnak mindent. Az úgynevezett hétgyerekes családanyáról meg inkább nem írnék semmit. Róla megvan a véleményem.
Frants on February 3rd, 2010 7:11 pm

It’s part of a long discussion thread it seems.
Damn hard to understand Hungarian. Fai! Igen!
Ludwig on February 4th, 2010 12:36 am

Here is the email I received from Pedro, one of the founders and producers of Mood Pictures. He has no objections against me publishing it, so I am going to use it in my blog post on Friday as well, where I will cover both sides of the story.

I am just posting the mail as is, without comment, so everyone can look at it as a source in the discussion.

——————

“During the [recent] photo shot for mood-art the studio was raided with a lot of policemen (commando stile), and all of us was arrested, handcuffed. We did not know why.”

“Only after keeping us in for 10-12 hours, were we told that a girl went into the police three days after the last ElitePain shooting, telling that she was not let to quit a scene, and was forced to do it (which is obviously not true).”

“The police does everything to find evidence against us, the media showed only [reports about] us for a couple of days. You can guess the comments of the vanillas. For exampe: When the police raided the studio, we were doing a photo set, where a girl was bound, and placed in a big box. The media showed the photo like we were holding there kidnapped girls in boxes.”

“This will be a very long process I think. And I don’t think we will do anything like Mood in the future. So I think Mood Pictures is over.”

“That’s what I can tell you at the moment. It will be good news for many [who don't like our videos], I think.”
Charles Martin on February 4th, 2010 1:36 am

Clearly this incident is about more than a single model’s complaint about her experience during a film shoot. The over-the-top, Orwellian use of force to address the model’s allegation would be the proverbial use of a sledgehammer to flick a mosquito cliché if the police where only interested in finding out what happened at her filming. Indeed, a letter or a phone call from a detective to the studio for a response to the model’s story would have been a reasonable way to start an investigation. Instead, by their jackboot tactics, sensational publicity pandering and the tearing out of all of Mood Universe’s many web sites, root and branch, show that the Hungarian authorities (and I mean beyond the police) clearly wanted to destroy this company. It appears that they have succeeded.

What will be interesting, in a sad and postmortem way, will be to learn in the months ahead ‘why?’. After the fall of communism, Hungary became a leading pornography production center on the European continent in that newly liberated atmosphere. Have the political winds shifted again? Is there a more intolerant, authoritarian streak arising in their body politic? Is there going to be a clamp down on artistic and political expression? Or did someone in power feel that Mood’s growing international reputation was bad public relations for the country? Or could it all have been more mundane? Was a demanded cash payoff not made to a government or police official? Or to an organized crime boss?

Mood has been operating, quite openly, for years. The number of models that have processed through their studio system must number in the hundreds by now. And this is the first time the police have received an actionable complaint? Whatever one thinks of their artistic choices, clearly they haven’t been operating too far out of bounds in regards to their employee policies. No, this isn’t about one unhappy model. (That she is a plant or a set-up to this raid is also a possible aspect of this affair.)

I hope that Ludwig, who has distinguished himself as a thoughtful writer of reason and artistic sense, will be a conduit and a journalist of record for how the history of Mood Pictures turns out and the forces that lead to its destruction.
Lord Fafner on February 4th, 2010 11:58 am

Ch. Martin: Agree. Orwellian…That’s exactly the word.And…what can I say about Pedro’s post? It´s sad, really sad, because I don’t find in it the will to go on or fight. And this means a total victory of political correction…and the Big Brother.
Who will be the next one?
Trilisser on February 4th, 2010 6:24 pm

I agree with mr. Martin. The whole affair stinks sky high. The whole accusation has an air of unreality in it. When I first heard of this, I too wondered whether this is a some sort of PC attempt by the Hungarian establishment to please some special interest groups.
Adam on February 4th, 2010 6:38 pm

This amounts more to a publicity event for the police than a real “victory” for Big Brother.

Describing this thing as Big Brother is slightly hyperbolic. It’s not like people are being monitored in their homes, and being dragged into the streets and persecuted for their preferences.

Based off of the allegation, it’s not irrational for police intervention- especially in the context of the Hungarian law.

However, the manner of intervention does seem irrational.

The means they chose probably is an expression of the masturbatory police force fantasy: these guys getting all geared up, busting down some doors, and playing the ass-kicking action hero for the day.

Film it, and it makes for some titillating media fodder.

If no wrong-doing was done, it is shitty that Pedro’s life is going to be hellacious for a while- all for the sake of some superficial police-media thrills.

Two core issues that seem most worth discussing are “legislation against an individual’s consent to be harmed” and “how the concept of ‘harm’ is defined and applied”
Lord Fafner on February 4th, 2010 9:53 pm

“This amounts more to a publicity event for the police than a real “victory” for Big Brother. ”
But…What is the difference?
Lord Fafner on February 4th, 2010 9:57 pm

“Two core issues that seem most worth discussing are “legislation against an individual’s consent to be harmed” and “how the concept of ‘harm’ is defined and applied”
Agree with this.But, finally, “legislation against an individual’s consent to be harmed is merely …orwellian. That´s my point of view.
Greetings
sprite on February 4th, 2010 10:15 pm

I couldn’t see that even a liberal country such as Hungary would tolerate the filming of such extreme beatings for much longer. Insex was the same in many ways in USA a few years ago. Regardless of whether or not the actresses were fully consenting or “into” the scene, Big Brother was watching and felt it necessary to protect the world from “perverts” who enjoy such material.
Redhead on February 4th, 2010 11:50 pm

@ Sprite. This appears a bit defeatist. The bare issue is what crimes were committed, and if no crimes were committed what redress do those affected have under their local laws. Was the police action in proportionate?

For example, in Germany, if the act does not offend good mores it’s not illegal to consent to wounding. BDSM has been deemed not to so offend. Here: “Am 26. Mai 2004 hat der 2. Strafsenat des Bundesgerichtshofes entschieden, dass sadomasochistisch motivierte Körperverletzungen nicht an sich sittenwidrig sind und damit § 228 StGB prinzipiell bei sadomasochistischen Praktiken Anwendung findet.”

Other countries have similar interpretations – to my knowledge Holland, the Scandinavian countries, Japan and to some extent Austria. The latter is interesting, because we may see whether an equivalent paragraph survived or is so construed in Hungary to permit BDSM acts in a similar way. As I undertand it, § 228 StGB in Germany allows patients to consent to wounding by doctors tending them.

In this case, if the principle of consent was not abundantly and clearly explained to what may be strangers to the ‘scene’ or was in some way contravened, if the means to withdraw consent were not clear, or made confusing, then I would condemn the act and expect those responsible to bear the consequences. That remains to be shown.

What is clear, as in many states, including the US and UK, under far-reaching terrorist legislation, we can be arrested, incarcerated without knowing why and dealt with at the state’s pleasure without charge, or shipped off to some less than benevolent ally for ‘treatment’. Those are truisms, which we can only start to overcome by making sure that law makers and law enforcement agencies know exactly what we are doing is not illegal and what they’re going to have to deal with if they contravene the EHRC, which they are bound to uphold. Even after R v Wilson, (consensual branding was found not to be illegal in the UK), Mosley v News Corp. (the openly admitted SM acts were not brought to trial by the CPS), charges being dropped against Westgate Old School (after six months of finger-wagging a brothel charge), the Folsom Street Fair in San Francisco, the fact remains that narrow minded law enforcement officers, often acting on the tip-off of a disgruntled scene member, can cause havoc with reputations and livelihoods while the wheels of justice slowly grind.

One way forward IMHO is to be as open and as honest as possible with all regarding what gives us fun – legally – so that local authorities and licensing bodies are not taken by surprise. That openness has helped the LGBT community gain increasing acceptance.

R
krampus on February 5th, 2010 1:18 am

We’re obviousoy not going to get the whole story until the case ((if therr is a case) comes to trial.
Manwhile we might like to include in our dystpoian prognostications the facts that (a) there is to be a general election in Hungary in April, and (b) that the front runners are a “centre right” party(Fidesz) which has attracted some very far right elements. The main whippiing-boy or scapegoat for this alliance are the Roma; but family values (= anti-gay, anti-pornography attitudes) are included in the mix.
John on February 5th, 2010 7:11 pm

To me the issue is very much the consent. In the UK it is known for ‘judicial punishment’ scenes to be offered by some doms. The sub consents in advance to (example) 25 strokes, is restrained and then the 25 is given. This is like the old days with 25 lashes sentence – no changing the mind.

So what did the sub agree to? Stop on the safe word? Or if she agreed to 50 strokes without stopping then this seems a different matter. So long as she is an adult and she knows what is to happen, I think she can consent.

Hopefully Mood has written consent and video of both the shoot and whatever was said before. If mood says one thing and she says another then it is a matter for the court to decide.

In the UK a very controversial court case stated that where serious harm is done then consent is not a defence. So maybe in UK, even with consent, then mood went too far. It is difficult to know how much is too much.

Personally I stopped buying from Mood because it went too far for my taste. I liked some of the earlier stuff, but later not so much.
Redhead on February 6th, 2010 2:47 am

John, I question the relevance of confusing the use of a safeword – a scene term, with informed consent a legal construction in some European jurisdictions, which permits non-life-threatening BDSM activities.

In scene play discussed here, there always has to be a way for the person being beaten to withdraw their consent and stop the scene instantly. In movies shouting out the word “cut” would normally do that. E.g. If a person feels tightness in their rib-cage, or a choking feeling, it could be the onset of a heart condition or worse. Unless I’m mistaken, doctors are not present to monitor the recipient’s breathing or heart-rate as they used to be at court-mandated corporal punishment sessions. Furthermore, the pro-dommes with whom I’ve discussed such scenes would never administer a beating of the severity to which you allude without first knowing the person well, having previously played several sessions with the person requesting it – thus gauging their ability and fitness both physical and mental to take such a beating. Even then, if any crimes have been committed, remains to be seen.

The other matters you address are those of taste, which should never flavor an argument regarding freedom of expression. Krampus’s well-delivered point, about it being an election year in Hungary, is welcome in this case. “If you don’t like it, vote for us and we’ll ban it.”

R
John on February 6th, 2010 9:41 am

Hi Redhead

Yes, I accept the pro-dommes who offer ‘judicial’ usually suggest that the sub should session with them before the judicial scene. I am aware of some who will do this without prior interaction. This is a choice for the sub to make.

I’m not confusing legal consent with safeword. What I suggest is that consent could be given to the specified number of strokes, with that consent also stating that no safeword be used. Legal codes will differ but to me such a consent (fully informed and by an adult) would be ethical.

Although I state my personal taste, I agree that this has no implication on this raid: I support the rights of others even where my taste differs. If mood has the informed consent then I personally hope that they will be exonerated.
Abel on February 6th, 2010 10:47 am

I’ve been following this with interest, and also found Ludwig’s post yesterday to be quite fascinating.

I’d written down my perspectives as a comment for Ludwig’s entry, but they turned out to be far too long and detailed – so I’ve put them up as a post this morning on The Spanking Writers:

http://www.spankingwriters.com/blog/2010/02/06/police-raid-spanking-movie-producer-some-thoughts/

Would be interested to know what people think of what I’ve written.
EricG on February 6th, 2010 11:04 am

Has it been determined if there are possibly other models in the past who have similar complaints? I read the police knew about this before setting up the raid. I don’t know anything, but why jump to conclusions, unless you were there?

I’ll be honest and say I hate the idea of Mood Pictures and have no sympathy for the people who run it or who support them. Anyone who would pay someone to be beaten terribly, not because they like to be beaten terribly, but because they need the money, is an abuser and an exploiter. People who fall all over themselves to defend Mood, with sad whining about threats to artistic freedom, when it’s really just sadistic jack-off material, make me sick. I hope I haven’t offended. I also hope to never see Mood Pictures again.
Adele on February 6th, 2010 12:14 pm

Eric, is your objection to vanilla models being “beaten terribly”, or being used at all? Because most spanking producers use vanilla models, you know. For a vanilla girl even 6 strokes of the cane can be a terrible ordeal, so 80% of spanking porn on the Net can be classed as “sadistic jerk-off material”.

I say this as a firm opponent of using vanilla models in spanking films. I just don’t think Mood should be castigated for something that’s really the industry standard.
Stephen on February 6th, 2010 3:52 pm

Hi Adele,

Have to sya that I dont agree that the use of Vanilla models is or has been the industry standard in the UK. We’ve been making spanking videos for over 16 years & I would say that most UK producers introduce new girls via the party scene first so they can see iof they are suited to the work & can opt out without disrupting an expensive video shoot. Newbies are ussually introduced by other girls already in the scene & thie system has worked well over the years to provide a safe, sane and consensual environment in the UK. There are exceptions of course (eg First Choice, who seem to use each new girl just once), but the main producers nearly all use experienced spankees who have come up through the party scene. It’s true that Rosaleen Young, Niki Flynn & Amelia Jane Rutherford did not frequent the party scene to start with, but all 3 of these wonderful ladies were already ‘into’ CP in their private lives well before they made any videos.
Have to put my hands up & admit that we did make a video with a 100% vanilla, Carly G, some years back. It was at her request and the spanking was built up very gradually. The feedback was that a lot of people showed the vid to their vanilla partners to encourage them to try spanking! If Carly had backed out at any point we had a ‘plan B’ for the shoot but all went well.
Mood are not my cup of tea & most people in the scene are well aware of my views about excessive (IMHO)brutality. I believe they bring the scene into disrepute & put all of us at risk of attracting the wrong sort of attention. while not wishing to undermine people’s ‘freedom’ I belive that with freedom comes responsibilty.
Adele on February 6th, 2010 4:06 pm

Hey Stephen, I’m talking more about the situation worldwide rather than the UK specifically. Reading through casting calls of many large spanking sites you see that they’re quite all right with spanking vanilla glamour models.

As much as Mood’s trademark shoddy aim and cheerful brutality pisses me off, I don’t think that casting-wise that do things much differently from, say, SOL.
Ludwig on February 6th, 2010 7:01 pm

Well, you will notice that this discussion about Mood / EP, like most others I’ve seen, has a tendency to eventually move away from the original – moral, legal – questions and towards more vague and subjective questions of taste. Usually along with terms like “I hate this”, “it makes me sick”, “sadistic jack-off material” and so on being thrown around.

That is not the real issue here, though.

The issue is not whether or not Mood hire vanilla models. That is not illegal (actually, it doesn’t make one bit of difference in legal terms whether the model was kinky or not), and as Adele pointed out, hiring vanilla models is pretty much the industry standard. Also, one can argue that, as long as the model’s consent was informed consent (and *that* is the question here!), there isn’t even much of a moral difference between employing vanillas and employing kinksters.

I, too, prefer working with fellow kinky enthusiasts. Not because I think it is morally superior, simply because I think it is far more interesting psychologically and creatively. In a perfect world, I would like all spanking videos to be made by genuine spankos. But that is not the world we live in, and as long as the consent is there, I don’t have any moral objections to vanilla models getting themselves thrashed in spanking films.

Neither are the artistic merits (or the lack thereof) of the Mood / EP videos the issue here. It doesn’t matter whether one sees what they do as “sadistic jack-off material”, like EricG, or as great Art with a capital A – these are aesthetic judgments, not moral judgments.

The two real issues are, in my view:

1) Was the model really beaten against her will, as she and the police claim?

2) Are these videos legal under Hungarian law in the first place (what level of injury can one legally consent to)?

With some of the posters here, on the other hand, the thinking seems to be: “Mood may not have done anything strictly illegal or immoral, but I find their stuff repulsive, anyway, so I welcome it if they go away!” Which, frankly, isn’t much different from the kind of thinking that lead to the recent “extreme images” legislation in the UK.

And then, kinksters in Britain wonder why theirs is arguably the most oppressed scene in the Western world (along with Alabama), in terms of what laws exist and in terms of how often kinky people are hounded by the police or by the media. Well, in part at least, it would seem to be your own fault, no?

Several posters here, most recently Stephen, are arguing: “I believe they [Mood] bring the scene into disrepute & put all of us at risk of attracting the wrong sort of attention.” Trust me, I understand that sort of thinking, and you may have a point there.

However, let us say for the sake of the argument that Mood are innocent of the current accusations, that they haven’t abused the model. Should we then still welcome it if they are put out of business, simply because they produced material that “was liable to bring the spanking scene into disrepute” and “attracted the wrong sort of attention”?

I think not. I think that it would create a dangerous precedent, and that it would, if anything, *encourage* the anti-kink, anti-porn crusaders of this world to restrict the kinky scene further – even those of us who are into far less severe stuff than what Mood produced.

Lord Fafner said something very intelligent in the discussion above, in my view: “First, they came for the Jews…” That, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly the story which I, too, have in mind when I see these discussions.

Again: if Mood are guilty of the accusations made against them, they are to be condemned, and I will be the first to do that. But I am going to wait for what actually comes out of this case before I make my judgment. In the meantime, I think the discussion about vanilla models, personal taste, “sadistic jack-off material” etc. distracts from the real issues.
John on February 6th, 2010 7:38 pm

Hi Ludwig

I don’t think most people in the UK would take the view you suggest.

UK law usually allows ‘assault’ if the ‘victim’ consents, the example was boxing – you are hitting a guy but he consented = no crime. A while back some gay guys got convicted of crimes for quite heavy activity, such as nailing a guys penis to wood. The court said that above a certain level then consent would NOT be a legal defence.

Now I’m not gay and I would have no interest in that level of play. But I always have disagreed with that law. So have a lot of heterosexual scene people who dont play like that. There have been campaigns, websites etc etc against it. A lot of ’scene’ people have argued and fought against that case.

Personally I went off mood products but I would still defend them and the people who buy them – just so long as it was all consented to.

(Personally I think someone should be able to consent to 50 strokes with NO safe word so long as they were an adult and knew what they were consenting to)
Abek on February 6th, 2010 8:44 pm

Does anyone know the name of the movie what its all about? i only read on spankinwriters it is a movie made on january and ludwig message by the producer doesnt contain the movie-title. shouldnt be hard to find out because (i think) they didnt offer many new movies every month.
Ludwig on February 6th, 2010 9:07 pm

@ John: Admittedly, my statement “kinksters in Britain” was intended provocatively (hey, I do my share of “riling”, too), and I am quite aware that, in this sweeping and generalising form, it isn’t really fair or accurate.

Also, it goes without saying that we have our share of intolerant, judgmental kinksters in Germany as well. And what does nationality have to do with the present discussion, anyway?

Still, it is something that I have noticed: that, even though you can’t generalise it, the tendency to judge others’ kinks negatively seems to be a bit higher in the kinky community in the UK, while kinksters in Germany tend to be a bit more careful (which can also be a bad thing, mind you – maybe we Germans are too careful and don’t judge others negatively even when we should?).

I don’t know where these national differences come from, or if my observations are even correct. But it is someting I have noticed, and I wonder about it.

That said, this is very much off-topic, too, so let’s not get into it too deeply…
Stephen on February 6th, 2010 10:30 pm

Ludwig,

While you are quite correct that the moral issue is not the point here with regard to legality, I suspect that for many in the UK scene, morality is a bigger issue than legality. We are one of the most censored nations in the world, and as you quite rightly point out, recent legislation has made the situation even worse.
We have only just managed to get R-18 certificates for CP vids very recently, and that was one hell of a struggle I can tell you. Those of us who would like to see a more tolerant view of our activities tend to set our face against any part of the scene which might appear to detract from ’sane, safe, and consensual’. We dont have the same freedoms here as you enjoy, & we learned from the Spanner case that the establishment here will always use the more extreme examples to keep the rest of ‘in our place’. Equating Mood to ‘first it was the Jews’ is ridiculous. If it was an attack on something like ‘Gay rights’ I’d see the point, but you are talking about a commercial enterprise, not a BDSM freedom movement. Mood depict extreme brutality because they saw there was a market for it after seeing the success of RE. If the video tapes show that they did not do what has been claimed then they should be OK on the legal issue. The morality & ethics however are something else IMHO.

It may seem hypocritical for me to seek tolerance for my own preferences and not to be tolerant of Mood. Fact is that those of us who organise shoots, parties, events etc have a responsibilty for the security, health and safety of whoever we involve
EricG on February 6th, 2010 10:58 pm

Adele, I am also a firm opponent of using vanilla models in spanking films, but I realize that I can’t always know what a model is into or not. I also have less of a problem if the ordeal the possible vanilla model goes through is not terrible. If 6 strokes of the cane is a terrible ordeal, then why would someone want the model to have to endure it for entertainment? Why should I respect someone who profits from it? Or someone who supports it because of a self-serving need? I have nothing against sadistic jerk-off material if there’s a masochist enjoying it on the other end.

It’s not about the legal issues to me, which are complex. I think Mood knows they beat vanilla models, and their viewers know it. They beat them brutally, to my sense of it. If something is legal, I’m not obliged to support it, have any sympathy for it, or respect it. I’m not for police violating producers’ rights, but I don’t know what rights are actually involved there.

If a desperate person comes to someone for money, and they would only give them that money if they could torture them, then this lovely person with money to give makes a good Mood Pictures customer. It’s not about legalities. It’s about what’s right and humane.
Mark on February 6th, 2010 11:03 pm

I see comments about “consent” as people wish it were or think it should be, rather than as it is. It may help to clarify what is important in the law, at least in the Anglo American tradition.

Two guys agree to step outside and settle things with fists–consent is not a defense, they both commit a crime.

Two people agree to have sex, but one is too young, or there is too close blood relationship, or they are in the military of unequal rank, or one is a prisoner and the other a guard, or other things–consent is not a defense, it is rape.

A husband and wife engage in sexual activities in the privacy of their bedroom in some way the state has outlawed, say with a condom–consent is not the issue, the law will not call it a crime because it is sex, the intent is sexual, there is no “criminal intent” the court will allow the state to assert.

It does not matter if one spouse enjoys a particular agreed activity more or less than the other, or just goes along with something not liked to please the other. As long as it is not an unconsentual act–rape–or spousal abuse, which are intentions within the state’s power to prohibit and for which consent is not a defense.

Now with unmarried actors, some vanilla, it can still be sexual if they stay outside the limits of the state’s power to prohibit their intent as intent to engage in sexual activity. But when one party is not enjoying it, when part of the play is to beg in a way that puts sexual intent in doubt, when treatable injuries result, it becomes a real question if it is still sex, and still the kind of sexual intent the state cannot prohibit as rape or abuse.

As a practical matter, actual consent is almost always an essential element of acceptable sexual intent, but the legal question is whether this is sex, of a sort the state does not or may not prohibit.

What Mood was doing just by definition ran along the ragged edge of those lines. If they were careful, they may not have crossed those lines. But everyone must understand the essential difference in risk between staying well away from the legal lines, and dancing along those lines trusting to cleverness and agility.

For the above, my training and experience is US law, and my research included British and Canadian courts for helpful guidance at an appellate level. I have seen nothing to suggest an essential difference in the law elsewhere in the EU, but it is outside my expertise to say there is no difference.
Frants on February 6th, 2010 11:55 pm

Eric: “If a desperate person comes to someone for money, and they would only give them that money if they could torture them, then this lovely person with money to give makes a good Mood Pictures customer. It’s not about legalities. It’s about what’s right and humane.”

Desperate? I think maybe all of those models who are interviewed on Mood dvds have jobs or are students. But they want/need some extra income.
Some people but not all do their jobs because they really enjoy it. Ask the girl working in the supermarket, or the one who cleans 25 hotel rooms every day. They do it for the money, which often isnt very much. Victoria has come back may times to take 50 ot 100 singletail lashes to her bare back. She finds it an acceptable and good job, with good money made in just one day. Even if it hurts and she doesnt like to be whipped. Now maybe she is unemployed. And must go to sell tickets on the train at night. Which she would like even less. So what is so humane in closing down her job?
EricG on February 7th, 2010 12:18 am

Frants: People are exploited in the workplace in many ways. There are many stories about why they choose it, some involving more desperation than others. I’m sure there are models who prefer being tortured with a whip rather than selling tickets on the train. Maybe the whip isn’t so bad for them. For some it may be a drug habit that’s difficult to support. Some may not be able to make ends meet, even with other more conventional jobs where there are hopefully laws protecting their safety and with decent conditions under which to work. Most don’t allow employees to be whipped, even if they might choose it to keep their job. If you’re okay with torture for hire, then that makes you a different kind of employer than me.
Redhead on February 7th, 2010 12:21 am

@ John. John said, “I have seen nothing to suggest an essential difference in the law elsewhere in the EU,” Then you must have missed my posts upthread. The 27 Countries in the EU have individual sovereign codes of jurisprudence. E.g. Consent to wounding in BDSM activities is legal in several EU states. I quoted and translated the essential position in Germany.

@ The Moralists. Ludwig’s said it. I’ve said it. several other’s have said it. Taste, ethics, morals are matters for vote hungry politicos and not the issue here. Banging on about morals simply shows scene members in disarray with their priorities. Whether crimes were committed is the issue. (Incidentally, if you expect jury members in the UK to nicely respect your protests and find in favor of decent English or American bruises but against nasty Hungarian ones, you’re naive. As I mentioned, the English CPS has made no proposal that the scene graphically portrayed as part of evidence in Mosely v News Corp is actionable either as Actual Bodily Harm or as portraying an act of extreme pornography. Consensual Branding is legal per Appeal R v Wilson in England. So unless some blinkered moralist takes notice of the breast-beating of the Mood-offended and gets on his or her high horse (nice mixture of metaphors), that’s likely to remain the case in the UK – no prosecutions.

But that could change (and it would be Mood’s far greater disservice to BDSM at large than any question regarding taste or lack of), if they’ve been sloppy and didn’t have clear instruments (e.g. the local equivalent Stunt Performers Agreements and Shooting Scripts) illustrating beyond the levels of doubt to be tested by the Hungarian courts that informed consent and the right to withdraw consent at any time (@John) were to hand, and that a premise for consensual wounding were also to hand. E.g. I believe bare-knuckle fighting is still permitted in Hungary (corrections please) and refererence Germany and to some extent Austria with which Hungary still shares several paragraphed laws.

R
Redhead on February 7th, 2010 12:22 am

My last entry should have started with

@Mark. Mark.

My apologies.

R
Frants on February 7th, 2010 1:14 am

Ludwig, you are still in touch with Pedro, right?
Could you ask him to ask Nelly, the one who does casting for Mood vids and knows English, to ask around among her girls if they are happy and relieved not to have to come back to the Mood studio for their cash? And post the replies here?
Adele on February 7th, 2010 1:16 am

Hmm, do you think that a) they have nothing better to do right now? b) any such comments won’t be suspect as a possible fabrication? (Not by Ludwig, obviously.)
Ludwig on February 7th, 2010 3:11 am

@ Stephen: “While you are quite correct that the moral issue is not the point here with regard to legality…”

Careful! You are misinterpreting me (and I think Redhead might be, too). I didn’t say that morality is not an issue here – of course it is. I am certainly not a legalist who subscribes to the position that: “Everything that is legal according to the letter of the law is alright!” No, what I said was that *aesthetic* judgments shouldn’t matter in this discussion. This was a reply to EricG and his remark that what Mood do “is really just sadistic jack-off material”.

I think that there are basically three groups of issues here, and that we should be careful to discern between them:

A) The purely aesthetic issues. This comes down to: do you like the Mood videos (in aesthetic terms) or not? Do you find them erotic or not? Do you think that they are Great Art, or “just sadistic jack-off material”?

People can have wildly different opinions on that, but I don’t think that it should have any bearing on whether or not Mood should be allowed to produce their videos. So I don’t see why we should bring these questions into the present discussion.

B) The legal issues. Such as, did Mood abuse that model during that shoot, as the model and the police claim? If so, that was obviously a crime. Also, there’s the question of whether or not these videos are legal in Hungary in the first place (what level of injury can one legally consent to)?

What I termed 1) and 2) in my comment above are the main legal issues, “the two real issues, in my view” (which is not to say that everything else isn’t an issue, but that these two are the main ones!)

C) The (wider) moral issues. They include B), the legal issues. However, there are moral issues that go beyond mere questions of legality and the letter of the law. For instance, it is not illegal to hire people who are desperate for money to star in a spanking film (at the end of the day, it is still their free decision, no one is forcing them at gunpoint!). However, most of us, myself included, will probably agree that it does raise moral questions about the business practices of the producer, that it does raise questions about exploitation.

What I was trying to say in my comment above is simply that we should be careful to distinguish between these different groups of issues, and that we shouldn’t muddle aesthetics with morals, for instance.

Personally, I do care about C), the wider moral issues – a great deal, actually. When I first met Pedro in late 2008, while he was on holiday in Bavaria, we did talk about the issue of exploitation, for instance.

He never made any bones about the fact that the vast majority of their models were vanillas who were only doing it for the money. However, he denied that it was exploitative: “Look, these girls are not starving!” He cited Victoria Young as a typical example, who had done half a dozen films with them and was one of their main models at the time. According to Pedro, she spent the money she made at the shoots to buy expensive designer dresses and similar luxury items.

Of course, Mood / EP had done dozens of videos with literally hundreds of models. It would have been naive to assume that all their models came from the same basic background, financially, or that there would be none among them who urgently needed money. However, Pedro maintained that the majority of their models were people not in dire financial straits, people who wanted extra money rather than needing it. He also gave the impression that this is how he preferred things, because otherwise, it would have been “pretty sad”, as he put it.

I believed that he was sincere in what he was saying, and the answers were good enough for me to make my decision to do this one movie with them. Rightly or wrongly, that is another question. But it was an issue that I cared about an that was talked about at the time.

“Equating Mood to ‘first it was the Jews’ is ridiculous. If it was an attack on something like ‘Gay rights’ I’d see the point, but you are talking about a commercial enterprise, not a BDSM freedom movement…”

Very true, they are a commercial enterprise, not a BDSM freedom movement. Still, I think my point is valid – precedents are being set, a climate of intolerance is being created. First, it’s the movie producers of very extreme types of videos (like Mood), then it is other video producers, then it is the *viewers* of certain types of videos (which is precisely what happened in the UK with the “extreme images” law)… Finally, who knows, it might be people practising BDSM in the privacy of their own homes.

Yes, it is a dystopian picture, and I might be wrong about it – I very sincerely hope that I am. But it is something I always have in mind in these kinds of discussions, and it illustrates, hopefully, where my point of view is coming from.
Frants on February 7th, 2010 10:54 am

@Adele: “Hmm, do you think that a) they have nothing better to do right now? b) any such comments won’t be suspect as a possible fabrication?”
— Hmm, since you are obviously right about b), then also a) becomes true!
My point was only: even the models will miss these jobs, and it might be interesting to hear the models speaking. Then I could chose to belive the comments or not –
But maybe it would be a waste of time, I cant totally disagree with you about that.
John on February 7th, 2010 11:11 am

Mark –

As you suggest, UK law does not allow two people to have a fight and call it consent. But the law is clearly confirmed in the European Court ruling on lasky, jagard, brown vs UK (’spanner’) – two guys in a boxing ring is not assault, the chap who got hit ‘consented’

EU court rulings obviously have effect across the EU but it is accepted that the individual countries can have substantial variations, particularly on ‘moral’ issues. They call it ‘margin of appreciation’

UK law says someone can consent to SM type activity up to the point where it is assault occasioning actual bodily harm, more than that and consent is not a defence. Hungary could have a completely different law and obviously that is the law Mood will have to answer to.

All of this may or not be same as my personal values and ethics. Personally I tend to hold personal decision making and consent above ‘morals’ when adults do things in private.
Tar on February 7th, 2010 11:30 am

Hi! Follow the link to kink.com and you´ll find an online discussion of 2008 about “Confusion regarding an Actress’ limits during a shoot”. There are a few lines about Mood-Pictures on page two as well!

http://forum.kink.com/thread/10290?start=0&tstart=0

—
bodack on February 7th, 2010 2:46 pm

I am having a real issue with the comment that some models are 100% vanilla. Stephan said”Have to put my hands up & admit that we did make a video with a 100% vanilla, Carly G, some years back. It was at her request and the spanking was built up very gradually.”

She asked for it and she is 100% vanilla? Hardly!

Overall though, regardless of the merits of the case it looks like a display of power by the Government. They went after someone who doesn’t appear to be well liked even within their own community.

I hate SWAT teams but most of the people I work with love to see displays of power like this. Their knowledge of history also tends to be along the lines of who won the Superbowl five years ago.
bodack on February 7th, 2010 3:00 pm

Just watched the video of the raid. What’s with the small bags of white powder. Are drug charges coming?
sprite on February 7th, 2010 9:52 pm

I find it ironic that the police team raiding this cp company is called SWAT !
krampus on February 8th, 2010 7:55 pm

Mark (6 Feb) seems to think that there are constraints as to what forms of sexual activity, or forms of physical assault, the law may prohibit. I suggest that whatever Parliament decides on these matters will become law unless it conflicts with other legislation, in which case the judiciary will have to resolve the conflict or Parliament amends /repeals the law(s) concerned.

But can it really be the case that this amazing blog has no UK lawyers (practising or otherwise) among its readers?
Frants on February 8th, 2010 9:23 pm

Or can it be that UK lawyers discuss UK legislation in a thread that is not about Hungary but about the UK?
krampus on February 9th, 2010 2:36 am

Frants: Maybe. But it’s their loss, as well as ours.
Stephen on February 9th, 2010 2:48 am

bodack (Feb 7th) said:I am having a real issue with the comment that some models are 100% vanilla. Stephan said”Have to put my hands up & admit that we did make a video with a 100% vanilla, Carly G, some years back. It was at her request and the spanking was built up very gradually.”

She asked for it and she is 100% vanilla? Hardly!

Hi bodack,

I guess I must have been deluded, thanks for straightening me out. She was so convincing too, just goes to show you cant trust anyone these days.
Stephen on February 9th, 2010 3:05 am

I think its fair to say that there is probably a law against just about everything in the UK. If the authorities want to clamp down on something, they find a way. In practice they only appear to act when there has been a complaint. This is logical. If there is a complaint they are duty bound to investigate. Allegedly there was an investigation into a spankaholics shoot about 4 years ago following a complaint by one of the models. As far as I know, no charges resulted from the investigation. I think the UK CPS is wary of prosecuting anything which might result in an aquital & which could set a new precedence to overturn the Spanner ruling. They are happy with the status-quo post Spanner & dont want to risk testing any shift towards a more liberal public opinion.
metatron on February 9th, 2010 11:19 am

What about the individuals (in the UK) who have downloaded this stuff. Are names and addresses likely to be passed on to police in other jurisdictions. Has an offence been committed under UK law by downloading Mood products? I assume we can trust the Mood claim that underage models were not used.
Adele on February 9th, 2010 11:23 am

I don’t think Mood has shot anything illegal in the UK terms, so I think the UK viewers don’t have to worry about that aspect.
metatron on February 9th, 2010 12:33 pm

And are we sure that none of the models were underage?
Adele on February 9th, 2010 12:36 pm

Yes, we are – at least to the extent that we trust the news report. It would be a really easy line of attack for the police to take, but as far as I understand, they’re not taking it.
kaveh on February 9th, 2010 9:21 pm

the safe word that has been chosen shows that they have had plans not to pay attention to it. its a safe word designed to be ignored
Adele on February 9th, 2010 9:31 pm

No, not really. It’s just designed to make video editing easier.

In a pinch, “Stop shooting, you arseholes, or I’m calling the police” would have worked wonders, as well, agreed in advance or not.
Guy on February 10th, 2010 3:32 pm

Hi, I’m Eslynne Weaver’s husband, and at her request I looked at the articles and did some research into this. My first language is Hungarian so I have a more unique perspective on this, if you will.

One point of clarification on the article translations…
The woman was hired to be beaten and was not a top. The Art Noir site sited the original article that Adele posted as stating that she was hired as a top. This is an incorrect translation. Every other article I read stated that she was the beaten and not the beater.

I read everything I could find on this topic and I believe that the primary issue here is not the legality of consent, but whether or not the woman’s use of the safe phrase was ignored.

The articles stated that when the police raided the firm they confiscated 14 terabytes of footage, but no mention of any documents. If enough video and paper evidence was found to prove the safe phrase was ignored then it is cut and dry.

The secondary issue of legality is a point of contention worldwide, for the most part. Laws are always up to interpretation by an individual if a judge rules or by many, a jury. A person’s morals, ideals, and religious views will also influence a decision. According to what I have read she was lied to about the severity of the beating, as they told her it was going to be fake, and that she needed to fake the pain. By any standard she didn’t give a truly informed consent to the beating/video as she thought it was going to be fake. Yet if she was beaten bloody, then there was no informed consent and they are at fault.

As I hear and read more I will keep you updated.
Adele on February 10th, 2010 3:35 pm

Thanks very much for this. A native speaker’s perspective is invaluable!
Guy on February 10th, 2010 4:00 pm

Personally I find it interesting and disturbing that if you “consent” to be beaten in an arena or sports venue it isn’t illegal because it isn’t a corporal punishment/abuse. Yet people see a spanking or caning, etc as corporal punishment and so immediately jump to the conclusion that it is abuse. Lack of knowledge and an inability to comprehend differing points of view has become a true problem anywhere you go these days.
Frants on February 10th, 2010 6:21 pm

Boxing is by many considered a brutal sport. But not by the practitioners, though they do suffer minor nad major injuries, often. Football is not considered a brutal sport, but the players go to hospital constantly. Alpine ski sport is not brutal in confrontation with fellow competitors, but the sport is popular with an audience who knows it is deadly dangerous. People get legs and backs broken, and one French woman died not so long ago. Movie stunts, often highly risky and with frequent injuries, are performed by men and by women.
I see the brave spankees as a kind of stunt women. Butts must be beaten for real, to make a spanking video, soft or hard. But in those vids, there is a sexual element, which is frowned on esp when women reecive the beatings.
I have in vain tried to have various girlfriends realize that the violence between men that they like so much to watch in certain prison exploitation films etc, with insane fistfights and abuse, is also erotic. But they can say “Erotic? No way!Shut up, I am watching this!” because no public discourse has established that it is.
All this said, fans of the harder vids, with people whipped and tortured, like them because they trigger sadist emotions.
My point is: scene people and audiences who like a spanking to be a bit firmer than, say, Northern Spanking, should realize or meditate on what human mental powers are at play. (Which many indeed do.)
And the vanillas would do well giving this some thought too, even if they never spank anyone or enjoy sm vids sexually.
FRIEND on February 10th, 2010 7:14 pm

mood pictures mood art all those guys very bad please be happy that they will no longer make this crap. i know models beaten
Me on February 11th, 2010 4:42 pm

I’m surprised by how this got into a legal/illegal discussion and the total lack of empathy for a potential victim of severe possibly uncalled for beatings. It doesn’t seem very huma or friendly to me, this whole rationalization thing. It seems some of the kinksters are more concerned about the image of their hobby then about what may have happened to this woman. I do not believe bdsmers are sick just because of their sexual preferences, but I really have my doubts about the, what I would say is, victim blaming. Also, I’d like to point out that I know many people in Hungary and most women there don’t have a lot of money, just for luxury stuff is kinda hard to believe, because it would implicate that only the top of the working people would do it. (Since they are the only ones who need the money for ‘only luxury, a little extra’). I’m not buying it…
krampus on February 12th, 2010 2:42 pm

Me has a point – and a few of the comments do remind one of claims put forward by defenders of fox-hunting.

I haven’t counted the number of lines in the correspondence devoted respectively to indignation on behalf of the (alleged) victim and speculation about the law but my impression is that the latter takes up quite a lot more space. But that may be due not only to the defensive mind-set of some correspondents but also because at present there is a great deal more that can be said about the law than about the reports of what took place.
Mark on February 15th, 2010 11:34 pm

The last two comments made me think.

After three decades of questioning police officers and reviewing their reports, I can say that there are honest and careful officers, and honest but careless officers who leave out witness names and scramble the facts. Then there are those who are deeply infected with self righteousness and cynicism, who lie and are proud of it. This becomes especially common in cases they feel strongly about. When they feel impunity too, as often happens, then it gets grotesque. Such a situation has characteristics that are hard to define, especially to those who have not gone through this, and most would just explain by saying something like, “It smells.”

The asserted facts in this case struck me from the first as having that smell. If pushed, I strongly suspect this story will fall apart into nonsense. It very likely began with an informant who needed something from the police, and tried to say whatever they wanted to hear, without much art in the story invention.

This offends me. It is why I feel no sympathy for the purported victim. I feel towards her only as I might to any other accomplise in an abuse of power.

Only the attorney who investigates this will pin it down and prove it, and it may not be so. I suspect, only that. But I am so distrusting of this, based on experience, that it entirely colors my reactions and sympathies.

And let me add for Mood that, while some of what they do is too much for me, I enjoyed some too, I am glad they were out there, and I hope they return in some form soon.
M Bartram on February 17th, 2010 9:15 pm

I urge Adel Haze to really listen to this comment I was told this by United Kingdom HMRC before the bust happened.

BDSM is a very grey area in law the whole world over and so is porn the whole world over. If you get BDSM porn laws right and you own a BDSM porn studio you make alot of money. Get BDSM porn laws wrong and you can get a very severe prison term.

I choose to believe that the owners of mood-universe.com did not really understand Hungarian porn laws the proof of this is the police press statement and the video of the bust.

I am 100% certain that the word of the police shall be taken over the word of the accused. The judge will make certain the jury does not listen to anything the accused have to say. The judge will not listen to anything the accused have to say apart from a guilty plea. The trial is just a formality the owners of mood-universe.com have already been found guilty.

What is more ask the owners of mood-universe.com if they had permission for their studio of any kind from their goverment? Because I know permission is what this whole bust was all about and the lack of it.

Adel will you believe me when the owners of mood-universe.com are in prison it is a question of when they go there not if. Which means their copyright, their contracts, their terms and conditions as well as their legal notice has no value. All their customers must hope that all models were over 18. Do you know or understand what a serious offence the owners of mood-universe.com were commiting before they got busted? I will give you a clue they had no permission from their goverment to run their studio. They did not know their films were made unlawfully. They were surprised when they got busted. They were idiots all the judge has to do is show their films to a jury in order to justify jailing them. Pay no attention to anything they say. Their porn scam has blown up in their faces and its their problem.
el on February 17th, 2010 11:31 pm

mood/elite pain were the best hardest dvds ive ever seen.

im gonna buy up as many as i can. they might eventually stop being sold or even banned.

get em while you can.
Frants on February 18th, 2010 1:05 pm

Bartram, do you have specific knowledge of Hungarian conditions? You are from there? I dont recall. But what you say can be true. P&P can get busted on small formalities of use of the location, I am sure, if authorities want to. Or tax or vat, or insurance. And most normal juries would be shocked and say guilty when shown the ‘worst’ from ElitePain. But cultures vary. Go from UK across to Holland and you find a very different society. Hungary I dont know. The Mood trial will be interesting. Even IF the footage from the debated incident would show that the girl made up all that with being tied ad abused in violation of contract.
Frants on February 18th, 2010 2:27 pm

el, where do you plan to buy them? The Mood sites are down since the raid. Are there legal copies in any shop near you, or on the net?
Ludwig on February 19th, 2010 6:17 am

In case anyone is interested, I posted a second email by Pedro on my blog, where he goes into more detail about the whole affair and about what, according to him, happened at the shoot:

http://rohrstockpalast.blogspot.com/2010/02/some-questions-answered-by-pedro.html

——–

@ Me: “I’m surprised by how this got into a legal/illegal discussion and the total lack of empathy for a potential victim of severe possibly uncalled for beatings. It doesn’t seem very huma or friendly to me, this whole rationalization thing. It seems some of the kinksters are more concerned about the image of their hobby then about what may have happened to this woman.”

I don’t think that this is a fair assessment. I’ve said from the beginning that, if it turns out that the accusations are true, it would be very sad indeed. Not just because of the damage done to the image of our “hobby”, but also, and more so, because of what happened to the victim, obviously.

I’ve received a truckload of reader emails recently, and the first question on most of their minds was: “Have we been wrong about this company all along?” (which we supported by buying their videos) People are clearly concerned, and not just about themselves, but also about the models at the shoots. Needless to say, I am concerned, too, and I asked myself the same question.

On the other hand, I have seen enough sensationalist and utterly inaccurate reporting about BDSM videos over the years, and I have heard of enough over-eager police investigations, to take everything that is written in such an article with a great deal of skepticism. There are a couple of things here that “smell”, as Mark put it, things that don’t ring true – also in light of my own personal experiences with Mood in the past.

So, we will just have to wait and see. In the meantime, it is no surprise that the discussion here was mostly about general legal aspects, because these are things that are easier to ascertain. As Krampus pointed out, “at present there is a great deal more that can be said about the law than about the reports of what took place”. I don’t think that this reflects a lack of sympathy for the alleged victim, though.

@ M Bartram: “I am 100% certain that the word of the police shall be taken over the word of the accused. The judge will make certain the jury does not listen to anything the accused have to say. [...] The trial is just a formality the owners of mood-universe.com have already been found guilty.”

I am pretty certain of that, too. Regardless of whether the accusations made by the model turn out to be true or not, Mood will be hammered because of one thing or another, like tax or illegal use of the studio location. I thought they would have been more careful about that (I visited a Mood shoot once, but never knew anything about how their business was set up, exactly). But, apparently, they were not. Which makes things all the more easy for the authorities.

My thinking is: while one can be rightfully critical about some of the things Mood did (yes, they should have hired more accurate tops, for one thing, and they were probably naive about some of the legal aspects), the way in which they were now “destroyed”, with a commando-style police raid, plenty of sensationalist reporting and a trial that will probably be anything but fair, leaves a bad taste also.
el on February 19th, 2010 8:55 pm

hey frants, there are two shops where i am that sell copies for 25 us dollars.

the other place sells them for 50. between both shops they have about 45-50 titles.

i now own 27. i bought 6 in the last 5 days. im gonna buy them all. they have both mood and elite pain.
Frants on February 19th, 2010 9:27 pm

Great, el.
But are they pirate copies (good ones?) or legal and authorised?
May I ask in what city you are?
el on February 20th, 2010 4:28 am

im in new york city, usa. i actually think the dvds are probably “pirated”, but they are perfectly flawless with trailers, extras, and everything.

probably not “legal”or “authorized” copies, but they are identical to what you would buy from the mood or elite websites (but for less cash).

their are a few websites (erod*d) that have elite/mood films. but im happy knowing i can just walk to my local pornshop and buy them directly.

whats the hardest mood/elite pain dvd you have ever seen?

im not sure for me, but the elite pain films are always a bit “harder”.

im on a mission top buy all i can from mood or elite pain, as im convinced they will become VERY scarce and go up in price, or just banned straight out, and taked off the market.

pity.
Frants on February 20th, 2010 10:03 am

Dear el, when you start making bucks on this pirate business, send a grateful thought to Pedro and his friends who made that possible. And send them a contribution of 25% of the profit you make, eh? Ludwig may help you to find a way to do it, I am sure.
el on February 20th, 2010 7:54 pm

i wont be making any bucks on any “pirate” business, because i have no plans to sell them.

so there is no “profit” involved here, only enjoyment of the material made by mood/elite pain.
GeoffR on February 21st, 2010 9:49 am

Unfortunately I think it’s pretty likely Mood did continue after the girl said no, that’s the basic issue here fantasy and reality shouldn’t be mixed up
Frants on February 21st, 2010 10:39 am

Sex, lies and videotape: based on my total information and knowlege of the Mood crowd, I dont think it is likely that what that girl said is true. But going on guessing and believing is useless, the answer is in the footage, and that will emerge eventually. We will just have to be patient.
And hope the Budapest police will soon dismiss the case, or charge someone with something, based on their investigation.
leo on February 24th, 2010 12:42 am

el,
can you help me by telling me where to pick up the DVDs in NYC. I’m not close but want to make a special trip to get them.
El on February 26th, 2010 5:49 am

Hey Leo ( hope your not law enforcement officer), all I can say is seek and you shall find.

I don’t want to give specifics because I don’t want the stores to be overrun by people looking to buy them all.

most of the porn shops in NYC are concentrated in one midtown area.

just look along 8th ave in midtown.

the other spot in in the same area, only more east (5th and 6th).

sorry, I’d tell more, but you ( or anyone reading) could be someone looking to find ” pirate” mood/elite films, and have them removed or confiscated.

I’m not even sure they are ” pirate” copies. They might be authentic.

I just don’t wanna risk not being able to buy these anymore.

just bought ” the exam”. Amazing film. Bertha black is so hot. Man she got her ass beat.

Peace.
Frants on March 3rd, 2010 4:38 pm

Police raid again, and it’s coming closer to home (I mean your home!)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7358039/Sex-dungeon-found-in-sleepy-Devon-village.html
dood on March 7th, 2010 7:15 pm

Mood and Elite sites now claim to coming back soon. Does anyone have any more details?
Frants on March 7th, 2010 9:43 pm

Who says?
dood on March 8th, 2010 6:37 pm

Click on Mood Pictures and Elite Pain website wherer there is a message stating they will be back soon.

I do not know anymore than that.
Frants on March 8th, 2010 8:55 pm

Yes. Great! The message wasnt there when I first checked. “Coming back soon” it says indeed.
So we will learn what has happened there, soon.
(I was worried that I wouldnt get the recent “Mood Castings”.)
dood on March 8th, 2010 9:18 pm

Anyone heard from the producers?

Or the actors?

Or the police?

Or the lawyers
Leo on March 11th, 2010 7:40 pm

EL, I’m headed to NYC to get the tapes and seeing a pro-domme. She’s staying in Chelsea and I’m arriving at Penn Station. If I were to start on 33rd and go downtown to 23rd on 8th, would I be able to find the shops you speak of, or must I head the uptown from 33rd. Would a walk up/down 8th be sufficient or do I still need to go to 5th/6th. Believe me, I’m a collector like yourself, valuing quality. I have already started to purchase DVDs from Europe, but if they could be had for cheaper in NYC, I’m there. ~ Thanks

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