don’t worry about me. I didn’t lose a job, I quit one. :)

It is true for two I’ve contacted in continental Europe – one in Germany, one elsewhere. I don’t want to name names, because this is not really the point here. They are not very well-known, anyway.

I realize that there are FM producers out there who do things differently. Maybe I’ll be able to travel there and do something with them one day, it would be great.

My point was that the fact that such a concept (paying to be in a video) exists in the first place is a sign of in imbalance between the FM side of things on the one hand and MF / FF on the other. I believe that, with female submissive models, no one in his right mind would ever dare to ask them to pay for a shoot, no matter where – they’ll welcome you with open arms just about everywhere!

I’ve shot for four different spanking video companies and each one has always payed me with a check. This also includes sending me home with a bunch of their DVDs and free memberships to their sites regardless if I’m topping or bottoming for them.

Indiana where do you live? I’m coming to get you…LOL…just kidding.
Thank You for the compliments.

Bailey, I’m sorry you lost a job. I hope you’re doing ok.

And as Mija mentioned, they are easy on the eyes, too. My first scene “crush” was on Keith Jones. In my not so humble opinion, more video companies should recognize that women buy these things too, and probably even more would if the men weren’t simply “faceless punishers” or “faceless sacks of meat.” (well said, Ludwig — I like your style)

I agree that there are some who will always think BDSM/spanking is bad. (It’s hitting! It’s violence against women! It makes men look like brutes! blah blah blah) They can’t compute the idea that it’s consensual, that we choose it and crave it. But still, the more we speak up about our own experiences with it, the better informed people will be. They’ll still choose to believe what they want to believe, but the information will be out there for those who are open-minded enough to seek it out.

Paying to appear in a video, however, reminds me of a practice that I believe went on around the London area back in the 1980s, which was called ‘pay to play’. This was where bands had to actually pay money to the landlords of pubs, bars and so on, in return for the chance to play live. It was described in music circles at the time as ‘an abomination’. The inference is that because there are so many like you, as an individual you are worth little or nothing to us. In the context of male subs I actually find this attitude baffling, bearing in mind how few of them seem prepared to go public.

I’d also like to draw a parallel between those who seek the opportunity to appear on video, and others – amateur writers, for example, who would like to have their stories or ideas made into a video. In both cases the motivation may well be for kudos rather than the money, but even a nominal payment (such as a copy of the finished DVD) is an acknowledgement that their contribution is valued.

Indiana also made a good point at Niki’s blog where she wrote that the issue starts with us as individuals, examining our own (often unconscious) gender biases. The more I think about it, the more this seems to be the center of the issue, really. For instance, women shouldn’t automatically assume that all porn or BDSM is inherently “male-oriented” or “exploitative”. It’s not even “problematic” per se. What matters is what kind of situation we are talking about here, so we have to distinguish and look at it on a more individual level.

At the same time, we as men shouldn’t assume that whenever the term “feminist” comes up, we are talking about man-hating dykes and censorious prudes. That is certainly not the case. Radical feminists are only a small part of a much larger, wider movement, and some of their fiercest critics are actually other, more liberal-minded feminists.

So maybe the real question to ask ourselves is not, how do / should I feel “as a feminist” or “as a man”, but how do *I* feel about this or that, as an individual. And why do I feel that way? Is it rational, or could it be because I have an unconscious bias somewhere.

I do like seeing all the blogs by women working as spanking models. As said above, it gives a great deal of insight into the industry. Plus you all are delightfully kinky people having some great adventures.

In the pay category, I think men who act in videos should be paid. There are some stars out there, though I don’t think as of this morning (because how much more can we be sure of?) they have blogs. Keith Jones, Steve Fuller and Arthur Sire leap to mind. My understanding from Tony Elka is that their male and female actors get paid the same rates and they’re as selective about casting the men as they are the women for their videos. And for good reason — I know at least 10 women who buy any video Keith is in! Maybe this is Eve’s influence — it’s nice when the spanker is as attractive as the spankee.

An aside: one of the things I’ve always liked about SL parties is that the ticket cost for women is the same as it is for men. Cheap as I am, I’d rather pay the extra money then feel like my ticket is being subsidized by the male attendees.

I also agree that so-called radical feminists get much more than their share of attention. It is not only a divide-and-conquer strategy (and I use this term loosely, as I suspect it’s unconscious for most of society) to keep feminists fighting among themselves about silly issues, but it also keeps both women and men from embracing the feminist label and working on the core feminist issues, like equal pay and healthier expectations for all of us. If society defined feminism the way I do, there would be a lot more feminists. That’s why I react so strongly to attacks on feminism that seem to find the anti-porn fringe to be at the center of the cause.

I’m also sympathetic to the view that men in spanking videos should be paid, too. Well, at least if they’re doing something more interesting than saying, “Bend over for the board, young lady” and whaling away. For that, a robot would be more interesting and kinkier. This is clearly a supply-and-demand issue. I think part of it stems from the fact, on average, men are more visually stimulated than women. I don’t know to what extent this is due to socialization, but my intuition is that there’s something biological there. So if men are the primary consumers (not the only consumers, just the majority) of spanking porn, their preferences will dictate who gets paid.

Having said that, societal expectations seem to skew what people want in their porn or erotica, compared to their RL play. For example, a Shadow Lane reader survey (see Stand Corrected Jr #3 on the Members site) found that 100% of submissive women prefer M/F, while submissive males were equally divided among M/F, F/F, and F/M. Similarly, females who switch had a clear preference for F/F over F/M, while males who switch were more evenly divided among M/F, F/F, and F/M, with a slight preference for M/F. Obviously, this isn’t a totally representative sample of the CP population, as it seems for example, to have few or no gay men. Does it seem like a reasonable representation of heterosexual players’ tastes to you guys?

After reading that, I decided to give F/M films another shot. Razor Ryan is one of the few who does talk about his roles, and I’m always interested in what he has to say. So I watched one of his bottoming clips on the SL site. I thought he was great in the Peeping Tom film, but the beating was just too brutal for my tastes. I almost wanted to block out his ass to enjoy his reactions, but it would be a shame to do that to such a cute bottom. :-) So maybe it’s not all gender bias. What do the rest of you think?

The whole feminism debate is a two-edged sword. It’s a good thing because it promotes gender equality and the right of women to explore their erotic fantasies in the way they choose. I’m all in favour of that and I will defend any woman against others (men or other women) who presume to tell her that “she can’t do that”.

On the other hand, as with any other “-ism” debate, there is a danger for it to become self-absorbed and locked into its own ivory tower. All of a sudden, you are only talking about purely female concerns and lose sight of the fact that men who are into BDSM often face quite similar problems.

I think that, because of the very same stereotypical gender roles, being a submissive man can be just as difficult and just as prone to misconceptions as being a submissive woman. And there aren’t even any blogs really addressing the issue.

My fear of being “found out” isn’t quite as big. BDSM is somewhat more accepted, in a general way, in Germany than it is in the US, I think. As well as that, I think it’s important to stand by what I do. I have good vanilla friends who know I’m into BDSM and don’t have a problem with it (if anything, there is curiosity). And if someone shuns you just because of that kink, then he really wasn’t a friend in the first place.

The main problem I face is a much more practical one. I’m mostly dominant, but I also enjoy the occasional submissive scene and I would love to make a video of one. The variety and quality of FM producers isn’t nearly as big as the variety and quality of MF or FF, though. If there is a really good opportunity (in terms of quality and promise), it usually turns out that I’d have to pay for it – and a substantial sum, too.

Female submissives *get paid*. On the other hand, I do not only *not* get paid, I have to pay myself! In its way, I think this is more expoitative and unjust than a lot of the issues faced by women in our community.

Mind you, it’s not about the money. Actually I don’t care about the money at all – I’d be happy to do a submissive video for free and even pay my own travel expenses.

A small symbolic payment would be nice simply for the following reason. Like Bob Ross, the painter, said: “It’s not about the happy buck. But if someone is willing to pay money, for something you made, then it simply means, ‘You did a good job!’”

So what does it mean if you have to pay to be in a video? What does that tell me? Not only does it imply that the job I do is literally worthless, and undeserving of thanks. It also implies that *I* should be thankful for the good ladies to even give me the time of day, I suppose. Never mind that I make no money from the sale of the video, someone else does! But still I have to be grateful that I get to be there the first place. Why, thank you very much!

Maybe that is why I downplayed the importance of the feminism issue in my first posts and actually had a somehat hostile reaction to it. My first gut feeling was: gosh, that is what you call a luxury problem! I would love to have that problem! Can we trade, please?

Then I’d have a much easier time of realizing my dream to do a good, professional submissive video, I’d even get paid for it (which is not about the money, it just gives me a good feeling because what I do is appreciated). And then I could blog about how hard it is to be a female submissive and a feminist at the same time…